BBW (Sorry for this but...)
 

I know I use NFL rules and this is not an NFL rules forum but I tried this question at the NFL rules Forum from RefStripes but got no answer.

I know it's forbidden to block bellow the waist on kicking situations. But I'm having a hard time clearing out when it is legal outside close line play. I've got one guy complaining that on a couple of his team's play, his defense on the field, the offense has a sweep. The outside LB goes for the runner but is blocked below the waist. Now, I can't find out when that would or wouldn't be a foul.

It is legal. I don't have my NFL book with me, but it is legal for sure.

When would it be ilegal then? Having a real hard time figuring this out

Home and got my book out.

NFL rule 12-2-12 BBW is prohibited by R players during a down in which there is a KO, safety kick, punt, FG attempt, or try kick.
Exception: Only immediately after the snap can can defensive players on the LOS lined up on or inside the TE can block low.
All players on K are prohibited from BBW after a KO, safety kick, punt, FG attempt, or try kick. After a COP, neither team can BBW.

So other than those times, any player can BBW in the NFL.

thanks, MJT... and sorry for being lazy and not finding it in the book

During the entire down? That means there would be times when a player by punting could turn an opponent's action into a foul. But I bet if they try that, the officials simply "forget" there was a BBW. Or is it that R players aren't R players until there's been a kick?

Anyway, unless there's been a recent change in the NFL, players of team B have been prohibited since 1974 from BBW against eligible receivers lined up more than I forgot how far outside their tackles. Used to be fairly common, especially in the AFL, for corners to chop down WRs on the line that way. NFL adopted that before (IIRC) BBW was prohibited on kick plays. NCAA prohibited BBW following CoP a few years before NFL did.

What I'd like to know is which year NFL's prohibition on use of hands against eligible receivers downfield morphed into their "illegal use of hands, arms, and body" rule. It was some time in the 1980s but they didn't advertise it. Does any major rules code still allow blocking downfield against an eligible receiver under the old strict rules of use of hands (i.e. close to body) in general circumstances?

Robert

They need to be in scrimmage kick formation and then punt the ball, so you couldn't "trick" them into a foul.

Well I don't know about that! If "scrimmage kick formation" means the same in NFL as in NCAA, all you need do is have someone 8 or more yards behind the snapper. There are defenses against power plays that depend on cutting down the pulling blockers, so all you need do is run such plays while someone's lined up 8+ yards deep, and if they cut your pullers, yell a signal to the runner to punt. So it means if the offense has someone 8+ yards back when the ball is snapped, you can't use that kind of defense.

Robert