I guess at the end of the day--we as officials have to determine when a player ceases to be a "potential blocker". Wheels, I trust your judgement for you to decide this on your own. There are numerous examples of the offense trying to "sell" a pass play in order to capitalize on a run play. Just one example is a Quarterback draw. The QB drops back, TE runs across the middle looking back--QB runs the ball. All I am saying that until I have a pass play the TE running across the middle is still a "potential" blocker--and blocking restrictions are the same for the offense and defense, so he can be hit. Unless you have illegal use of the hands and the QB now runs, what possible penalty can you have on this play based on the action of the LB just coming up and blocking the TE.

Once again the key is "potential blocker" and we must each decide that judgement on our own. However, I am not going to throw a flag on a legal hit\block by the defense before a pass is thrown.

NDRef,

As a wing guy I would have a hard time making that call. Thank Goodness we have 5 man for vasrity. That is a BJ call. It would be hard for the wing guys to pickup the TE in the middle and flanks on the outside. I'm quick, but not the quick. I can't wait for the season to start. I guess California is a little behind. But we have scrimmages this weekend and the season starts next Thursday.

Wheels,

I agree, and on our crew that call does belong to the BJ. Up here in the frequently frozen north, we've already had a couple of games--game 3 tomorrow night. Good luck on your season, and thank you for the professional level of conversation.

Thanks! same to you!

Hold on guys! I work HS and college and have been to many clinics with D1 and NFL officials and you are giving team B way to much leeway. He is a potential blocker if he is going forward, but once he makes a cut (even at an angle) he is in his route and no longer a potential blocker. He does not have to be on the same yardline as the defender. If he is running a crossing route and running parallel to the LOS, how can you say he is a potential blocker? There is no way he is and if you call it that way you are giving the defense a huge advantage and missinterpreting the rule. It is illegal use of hands until the ball is in the air and DPI if the ball is in the air and crosses the NZ.

Like I said... see the whole thing and rule accordingly.

In general, I agree with MJT... once the receiver makes a cut he probably isn't a blocker.
However, if the receiver is running directly at B2 after he makes his cut, then you have to factor that into your
ruling... was the receiver looking at B2? back towards the passer? so on and so
forth.

But he is not going to look back towards the passer till he is where is supposed to be when the ball is thrown. Thus, you cannot use that as part of your judgment.

I cannot emphasize enough how when he makes his cut, he can no longer be hit by B.

l3will,

He is running a pattern. He is running to a spot that he practiced. If B2 happens to be at the spot doesn't mean he is looking to block.

Help me understand how you would handle this. A will be running a delayed draw play. The wideout breaks from the LOS and cuts outward on what appears to be a out route designed to take a defender with him, he is contacted by B with open hands as he is moving past and away from B. Is the contact be B illegal in this instance? It was obvious that he was no longer a potential blocker by case 9-2-3-A but was a running play.

I think the main point for me is to see the whole play and understand the situation. MJT is right - I think I'm giving B too much leeway, but I'm also not going to assume that I know what A is going to do; and because I can't assume what they are going to do how can I expect B to do the same. That is what I'm struggling with.

This is why you see late flags on plays. You see things that may or may not be a foul, but it depends on few things. Here are some examples.
1. In your delayed draw play - you see the contact and know that if this ends up being a pass play you will have a flag on the ground. When it ends up being a draw play, you do not. What you probably would have on that play is the receiver making the initial contact as soon as the the DB sees the draw as if he is worth a hoot as a DB he will be sneaking a peek in the backfield.
2. Your key is the wide out and you see him blocking downfield and the QB drops back to pass. You are thinking it is going to be a screen pass, but the QB throws a quick out to the receiver who was in the slot on your wide outs side and it is definitely beyond the LOS.
3. You see illegal contact on your receiver and you glance in the backfield to see what the QB is doing. If he has just thrown a pass to the opposite field you have nothing. But, if he scans the field and later throws a pass, gets sacked, or runs, you would have a flag on the ground.
4. In college you see the ball thrown to a receiver and he is interfered with. You need to wait and throw your flag only if the pass is catchable.

These are just a few instances where you have to wait and see what happens and then decide if you put a flag on the ground, or not. What it boils down to is seeing the potential foul and sometimes needing to wait and see if you will flag it or not.

I know MJT is officiating at a much higher level than me, but what about this particular play?

A will be running a sweep to the strong side.
Strong tackle blocks the DE towards the sideline.
Fullback blocks the strong side LB.
TE should block the middle LB.

The TE runs downfield 3 steps, cuts hard inside and goes hunting for the LB.

The action that I am seing COULD still be a pass play, and the TE has made a definative cut and is running parallel to the LOS.

So it would have to be an illegal use of hands according to MJT.

Then there is the same movement for everyone, but it is a pass play...
I think I'd be giving the defense the benifit of the doubt in this case.

Again - I am in a completly different set of circumstances than MJT, and will unfortunately never get to work college ball. :-(

James

If I got it right, in this situation you'd have to wait and see if it's a run. If it is, there's no flag. If it's a pass, then you'd have, at least, illegal contact

jjrye22,

By the time the sweep is formed you will know the intent of team A players. Most of the time if it is a sweep, a couple of the linemen pulling to get out in front of the running back. If it is a screen play, there may be a slight delay but you should see block drifting in front of the receiver. A lot of times the linemen tell you what type of play is being run by their blocking.

So lets see if I've got a "proper" interpretation here.

If A is past and moving away from B any contact on A is Illegal Use of Hands. This contact can be with an open hand, a shoulder nudge or anything that "intentionally" knocks A off his route (would feet tangling would be ignored like it is in DPI/OPI).

If A and B are chicken fighting (sorry best description I can think of) right from the snap and A hasn't gotten past or away from B, that contact is legal - up until the ball is thrown toward A or A is able to get past or away from B.

Does it seem like I've got it?

Paul,

As MJT siad, you also have to take a look at the QB as well. Your flag will come late if an attempted pass is trying to reach A. If no pass is attempted, you got nothing. You have to see the whole play, the BIG picture. Your second example I would say is correct.