SCAB officials? Maybe not.
 

There are 2 games being played today in Toronto.

The officials are from the USA.

The US officials may have work permits, but I can't see why. Does anyone have experience with cross-border law and work permits?

So what did Coach Mills do that has you guys so deadset that he not coach the game?

Who is Coach Mills? Where did you read about this person?

Why are OFOA members not working the games, involving one Coach Mills is coaching?

On ongoing disciplinary issue.

Where did you read all of this?

You started this thread. Why don't you share the whole story instead of being so evasive? Your "Who is Coach Mills" BS is prettey revealing don't you think?

What has starting a thread have to do with anything?

The coach was suspended by the officials. The league wouldn't honour it. Mills thinks it is his right to pick which officials officiate his games.

Instead, the league has hired other officials. In 25 seasons of officiating, I have never been ashamed of another groups of officials, until now.

Those are the details. Now would you care to inform where you read about the situation?

How can officials suspend a coach??? I am the last one who wants coaches picking officials but officials suspending coaches???? What did he do to warrant the "suspension"?

Does the officials association contract with the League permit them to take a job action like this?

The Issue with coach Mills has been resolved to the best of my knowledge.

However, when the crews showed up to officiate todays game they were told that their services were not required that the league has contacted officials from the United States to cover the games.

I thought the League had publicly said 3 days ago they would not be using OFOA refs for the game? Guess that word did not make it to the refs.

Anyone north of the border care to give a news story or some other background to those of us scratching our heads south of the border? :confused:

With all due respect TXMike, you are severley misinformed, through no fault of your own.

Why don't you tell me where you've read your information?

If you are going to start a thread, could you please give us some information? I have no idea what you are talking about or who all these people are.

Peace

I think Mike asks a damn good question. Why are you being so evasive about everything?

You call these guys scabs but I don't see where your actions are anymore honorable.

From GOOGLE......

http://www.allcanadagridiron.com/php...forum.php?f=19

If you wade through everything and throw out the 90% fan nonsense, as near as I can tell:
- the OVFL is composed of 3 divisions--Peewee(12-14), Junior(14-16) and Senior(16-18). The divisions have over 20 teams each playing a summer schedule from cities all over the province of Ontario, Canada.
http://www.ovfootball.ca/
- Officials are supplied through a provincial officiating body called the OFOA, which is composed of regional officiating groups. OFOA supplies officials through the same type of model used by the SEC and other major D1 conferences. They recruit, select, train and assign all officials for all games played in that league
http://www.ofoa.ca/
- the Provincial official's group had a major problem with the actions of the coach of a Senior team against the game officials at a semi-final game. They wanted him suspended for the championship game for these actions.
- after fighting all week, an agreement was reached on Thursday that the coach wouldn't be on the field and that OFOA-assigned officials would now do all 3 games.
- The Peewee championship game on Friday night was officiated by OFOA officials.
- When OFOA officials showed up for the Junior championship game on Saturday afternoon, they were informed that their services would not be needed for either game, and that both games would be officiated by U.S. officials. They were.
- The team that was the center of the conflict lost anyway in the Senior championship game.
- if you can believe some of the rhetoric, there have also already been OVFL executive members and teams resigning from the league over this mess.

Bottom line....it's basically a labor dispute and it's not over yet. And....imo officials anywhere at this age level should not involve themselves in situations involving major problems encountered by a fellow officiating group. "Brothers Under The Stripes" simply don't do that sort of thing.

I don't know where the officials came from but the closest big cities in the U.S. would probably be either Buffalo or Detroit.

Btw this reinforces my vow to keep away from fan forums in any sport. :)

Enjoy, if you've got a strong stomach......

I was an official on the game in question, and while I won't give any details about what happened, I will say that what he did warranted at least a suspension.

I agree, I was shocked when I found out that American officials were actually doing the games. If I was asked to step in in this situation, I would definitely refuse. The only thing I can think of is that these officials did not know the whole story.

I found one real article about the theme. Doesn't say much, but it at least gives a background.

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/st...d-ed973d35da5a

Personally I'd like to hear more about it.

James

It looks like you didn't do much of a favor to your fellow officials from another country though, does it SCAB? But hey, the weather was good, the field was beautiful, the games were good and the kids seemed to have a good time. And you made a few bucks too probably. Life is good.

Not to worry. I couldn't do what you did. Ever. But that's just me.

I read somewhere in that forum that you guys were from the Detroit area. Maybe an equivalent situation might be the MHSAA using you guys all year round and then telling you before the state championship games that they're bringing in officials from Illinois or Ohio...or Canada to do those games. Nothing the matter with that, right? I'm sure that the officials from Illinois or Ohio would never ask whatinthehell was going on either. They'd probably think that it was only a favor for someone.

One other thing....I see that the MHSAA posted a <b>Code For Athletic Officials</b> on it's website. #3 in that code states <i>"Accept contracts for and officiate only contests for which you are qualified and experienced."</i> I take it from that then that you are qualified and experienced in Canadian football. Correct?

Well clearly none of us is going to get a straight story from the ref's side about what was going on up there so how can you blame someone for taking the game. Should they just have refused because some other association refused it? Most of us have been in associations where the group's leadership has done things that many of us in the group do not agree with. For all any of us know, that was the case here. I am all for defending my fellow zebras but only if I know they acted correctly. They do not get an automatic walk from me.

Apparently.

Soooooo......there'd be no problem with the TUIL bringing in officials from Oklahoma to do playoff and championship games in Texas, I take it? And if someone from Oklahoma called you and said "Hey, TXMike, y'all come up and do our 5A championship high school game, you'd be there? You'd never dream of calling the Oklahoma officials first to find out whatinthehell was going on?

OKay.......

Worse than apples and oranges: more like elephants and paper airplanes.

Me personally, I would not do the game in Oklahoma, nor the one in Canada. A man has to know his limitations and mine include limited brain capacity. Same reason I will not even do HS football here in Virginia. I only know 1 rule code, NCAA, and am incapable of learning another sufficiently to call a "big" game. How do we know the US refs did not inquire as to why they were being requested?

To the US officials that did the game:

I'm glad that the young athletes were able to play a game that awarded the championship trophies. To not have that played would be heart wrenching. The league was once a strong and vibrant league, and tonnes of fun to officiate. It is still fun to officiate, but there has been a noticable lack of leadership in the league administration this year.

You were put in a tough stituation. You didn't know all the facts, and likely heard from only one body: the league. There's no doubt in my mind that if the league did tell you details about the situation, they were vague at best, and flat out incorrect at worst.

• Also, did it ever occur to you to ask the league for a contact with the official's organization that normally covers the games? This is a provincial final - surely you didn't think the officiating was something of a low priority.
• The coach has been ejected from games 3 times. By league rule, he should have been ejected from the league... for life. But alas, he wasn't because he and a league executive coach Team Ontario together.
• As for Chief Referee, that wasn't him, I can almost assure you.

Edit: spelling

Interesting part of the article indicates that the striking officials union was paid in advance for the games and...

""They're breaking their contract, so there will probably be litigation after this," Rion said. "They (officials) are the only ones who get paid for their job in this (league) right now they're denying youth their championships."

Sad state of adulthood.

1) Original answer deleted due to a wrong assumption on my part.

2) That was one of my points. It's not normal imo <b>not</b> to question being asked to drive hundreds of miles to do games in another jurisdiction, let alone in another country using strange rules. Something had to be screwy.

Hopefully, it'll get straightened out, maybe not to both side's satisfaction but to something that both can live with.

That is one unbelievable fan forum to wade through though. Typical, I guess.

If somebody invited me into <b>your</b> area to do games, I'd sureasheck find out what the real deal was before coming in. And that includes contacting the local officials' group in your area and getting their input and permission.

That's just me though.

Permission????? Maybe y'all look at things different but down here, officials are independent contractors. We do not need "permission" from other independent contractors to do work for a contractee.

So if a league decides they want to use a different ambulance service than the one they have been using, the new ambulance service should ask the old one for "permission" ?????

Soooo...I can see there really isn't any problem in your mind with officials from Oklahoma coming in and doing high school playoffs or championship games in Texas.

We're independent contractors too. The difference is that we respect other independent contractors.

I guess I have been reading you wrongly.

Sad.

Jmo.....

I could care less if Oklahoma officials come to Texas to work a PeeWee game.

And they would NEVER come to Texas to work a bigtime HS game involving only Texas teams. Coaches would not stand for it, nor would UIL. Both of whom realize they would be unable to get better officials than what they have at "home".

Guess that tells you the difference between Canada and Texas doesn't it?

It sounds to me like the officials that went up there did not know all the circumstances. Honestly, I would not expect them to know. When someone calls you to work a game, you do not ask a lot of questions. I have done games in other states and I did not know anything about why I was asked to work. We are not talking about major college or major pro sports here. We are talking about a local league that might not pay much money to work a single game. I think the term "scab" is a little misplaced in this thread.

Peace

That seems a little harsh Mike and out of character for you. You are usually a very polite and respectful to other officials.

What if the organization structure is different in Ontario than in Texas - and no one is allowed to work a game unless assigned by the association (like what we have in Germany). If the association refuses than the leauge would look around for other possibilities. That does not seem too much of a strech.

Instead you seem to imply that the local officials are less able than out of country people brought in.

Maybe I misunderstood you.

James

Someone else tried to compare the situation in Canada to a similar one in Texas. All I said was that was an impossibility for precisely the reason I stated. I don't know if the Canadian officials were any more or less able than the group that was imported but apparently the league did not see a problem as they went ahead and brought them in. Frankly, I can see the league's position. The official's group had apparently taken a strong stand against this coach. If those officials had been permitted to ref the game and made calls that went against that coach's team, don't you know what the outcry would be?? PAYBACK !!! PAYBACK!!! So perhaps to avoid even the hint of conflict of interest, they chose to go elsewhere.

Instead of saying that it's an impossibility, why not answer the question? I would imagine that the Canadian officials thought that it was an impossibility also.

Let's try again....

1) You're sitting in your dressing room somewhere in Texas, waiting to do a championship game that you have been assigned to. Someone comes in and says "Fuggedaboutit, we brought in a crew from Mexico and they're gonna do the game." That's fine with you, right, because the league thought it was OK? And the fact that the Mexican crew has never worked with the Texas NCAA ruleset used in the game isn't relevant either?

2) Someone phones you up from Mexico and says "I'd like your crew to cross the border, drive 300 miles and do a couple of championship football games." Would you not inquire as to what the hell was going on? And if you were told that you were asked in because of a dispute with a Mexican officiating body, you'd go anyway? And if you're also told that you would have to use Mexican rules, which are completely different than the rules used in Texas, and you've never worked a game under those rules before, that's still not a problem either?

Just want to make sure that I know where you're coming from......

1 - Never happen. No way I can answer as it is a hypothetical that is beyond comprehension. (There have been very isolated situations where multiple crews have shown up for games and as long as everyone got paid, no biggy.)

2 - I actually HAVE gone to Mexico to work games and I knew why I was asked.

Seems to me all you care about is "feelings". The Canadian guys' feelings were hurt. We all get our feelings hurt from time to time. Be a man and get over it.

If your association feels it was wronged then perhaps you should direct the league to look elsewhere for officials in the future.

Seems to me that you simply refuse to answer those questions. Fine with me. I kinda expected that from you. I'll refrain from posting any other opinions; no need for a flame war. Btw, "feelings" isn't a factor, unless you call respect for my fellow officials no matter where they are located "feelings".

2) Got nuthin' to do with my association. I don't have a horse in the race. My point was that, personally, I respect other officials groups and I absolutely refuse to get involved in another group's dispute. Ever. Doing so would make me feel like a.....scab. That holds true for all disputes of this nature, no matter where they occur. That's just me also.

Wounds do not heal without "scabs" so maybe that is what it will take to cure the wound up north.

As more and more details are arising about the situation, it appears that the league is even more bush that I originally thought. I will correct myself and say that the US refs are not scabs, but I do think they missed some due diligence. The whole situation is something crazy really.

Rion has repeatedly offerd bad information to the officials, media, and US refs (assume that he contacted the US refs). He's not a relaible source. :(

TXMike: personally, I see the league improving because of this fiasco. People with first-hand knowledge have said that Rion was over his head in the league. If you don't see why the officials should take action because of a league not enforcing it's own policies where harrassment of an official is concerned, then perhaps you should stay to on-field duties. And as for your "never happen", that's what we thought here too. ;) Nobody ever thinks that their house will be broken in to, that their car will be stolen, etc.... but that's when life hits ya.

The posted article/link is clearly against the officials because it doesn't clarify events that support the officials' stance, but focuses on the league's/Mills' stance. Even the article author can't copy and paste Rion correctly (find Ryan).

But as usual we will find out more and time progresses, and the officials will come out strong. Word is that Rion has resigned. Or is it that Ryan has resigned? :cool:

I'm glad that you did do this... but what does it say when the league gave you less info than what was in that article, and the statements in that article were largely skewed?

You had the wool pulled over your eyes, and for that I'm sorry that such a thing happened to fellow officials.

Is this the first time ever that this league did not support the officials or fudged on one of their policies?

In my neck of the woods, if an association doesn't approve of league actions they simply terminate the contract and go on.
A new association steps in and officials work the games. Leagues shouldn't have to dissolve simply because one association doesn't like what they did.

IMO the associtation should have:
1. Negotiated in private with the association to work out the problems. Not make it a public debate.
2. After negotiating either Honor the contract or
3. Terminate the contract and walk away.

If they terminate the contract they shouldn't care what happens after.
If the association wanted this leagues business they shouldn't have publicly ridiculed them.

When my association picks up a new league I don't research the history of the previous associations dealings with that league, I simply do the games I'm assigned to.

You truly are Jurassic:D
Back in the day when unions had a purpose crossing a picket line meant something. It's a brave new world

I would have no problem doing these games. I'm an arbiter of games not an enforcer of a leagues internal policies.
Who cares if the leagues policy of kicking a coach out of the league wasn't followed?
If the coach has a problem respecting officials it's a game management issue. I can take care of that in about 30 seconds and be on with the game.

What if the leagues policy was 8 strikes and you're out, and the coach was at 7, would there have been an issue?
Would the association have refused to take this league on as a customer?
It's the leagues policy NOT the associations policy that is not being enforced.
The referees need to manage the game and let the league tend to administration and off the field discipline.

If the association is scared of this coach then they should simply walk away and let the league go about their business. I'm not going to refuse a game simply because another official can't handle the heat.

And you truly are sad. No smiley attached.

I definitely prefer to stay on-the-field and out of the political BS so no problemo there.

And your analogy re the criminal stuff is pretty poor one to use with me as I have had all those things happen to me. For me, the prospect of something like this happening in a big time Texas HS game is as likely to happen as is the chance that I would ever do a game under Canadian rules. Aint' happening.