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Sun Nov 04, 2001, 10:34am
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i have read responses on the tee situation and the fake the spike and have agreed with you all on both actions--how about this one-- it happened and it won a game .
fourth down and 9 ball on the 17. A player runs on with the black FG tee and the QB runs to the sideline to get his "Kicking shoe" , the shoe is tossed to him and at and around the hash mark he begins to change shoes. meanwhile his team gets in formation to kick. Suddenly snap to holder and the kicker gets up and runs a fly pattern (uncovered by defender ) Touchdown!!!!!!! what do you think???? it was called legal and as a coach we lost that game -- what you guys think??? thanks alot 
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Sun Nov 04, 2001, 12:01pm
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No question about it!
It's illegal. It's just a shoe instead of a tee. The team used deceptive action and verbiage to make B think that a snap was not imminent.
From 9.5.1D "However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal." This fits perfectly into that description.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Sun Nov 04, 2001, 11:30pm
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This should have never happened under Federation rules. A player putting on a shoe, tying a shoe, etc. gets 25-seconds to "repair" his equipment while the ball is dead and not ready for play.
I would have stopped the clock and waited for the player to get his shoe on.
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Mon Nov 05, 2001, 12:50pm
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True - it's illegal and should never have been allowed to get the play off. However - I was wondering - what position was the holder in when he received the snap? If his knee was on the ground - it should have been blown dead. It's only legal to have a knee on the ground IF there is someone in postion to kick the ball, also.
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Mon Nov 05, 2001, 10:09pm
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I'm not Ed but I'm going to answer.
If equipment becomes defective during a play, the R should hold the ready whistle for less than 25 seconds. (3-5-2b) In this case, we aren't reapiring defective equipment. In this play, the ready whistle has already sounded. If a player comes onto the field with two shoes on, he is properly equipped. Technically, when the player removes his shoe, he is now improperly equipped. (1-5-6) So, if you aren't going to kill the play with an USC flag, which I certainly think you should, you could flag him for failure to wear equipment properly. There's always a way to stop a cheater.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Thu Nov 08, 2001, 09:35am
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i dont have my rule book handy to view 3-5-2 etc, but are you saying that if my quarterback runs the ball and during the tackle his shoe comes off, the ref should hold the ready mark for 22-24 seconds and then give me another 25 to snap the ball. we lost a game this year because my (incompetent) back up quarterback fumbled a snap as the starter was forced to leave the field because his shoe came off. the ref marked the ready for play while the qb was showing the ref his shoe in his hand. please dont tell me a good ref would have allowed him time to put the shoe back on, that information will just break my heart.
BTW, we definitely should have called timeout and gotten the starter back in, the game is our fault, not the referees, but it would have been great to be taken care of if we couldve been....
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Thu Nov 08, 2001, 09:55am
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As a referee - and we all have different ways of doing things - but in our group - a shoe coming off IS reason to stop the play clock. I have let them fix their shoe - tie it etc., and then re-start the play clock. It's equipment - and has become 'defective' through use. No different than a pad coming loose and needing time to get it fixed -on the field, without assistance from a non-player.
However - we have been told by our State Assoc. NOT to allow a 'kicking shoe' to be brought in for a kick. If he comes in WITH it - fine. But - if someone has to bring it in for him, it's not legal. Some have overlooked it - if it doesn't hold the game up - however. Other associations may see this situation differently, however. It does seem to be a gray area ruling. But - in my opinion - the fixing the shoe should not be a gray area - it's black and white - allow it.
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Thu Nov 08, 2001, 02:14pm
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Bill is correct.
What would expect from a fellow Tar Heel? :^) Playoffs start next week, Bill. I should find out on Saturday morning where we're going next Friday. Maybe up your way again!
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Fri Nov 09, 2001, 02:58am
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Quote:
Canadian: Play blown dead, 5 yards illegal procedure and a scowl at the coach. I keep hearing variations on the same thing over and over. Why does this seem difficult for everyone to grasp?
__________________
Am I just a three-down ref in a four-down world?
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Sat Nov 10, 2001, 11:25pm
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__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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