Touchback or Down on 1

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Originally Posted by MJT

Thus, I would say if he goes down on the hit, TB, but if stays on feet, it would be the spot of his forward most progress. So, in your play, he went down at the one, so TB.

But his forward most progress IS the 1.

[RazorRef]

Ok...we should get this clear. I don't have a Fed book with me, but I do have the NCAA book. Rule 8-6 discusses Touchbacks. Rule 8-6-1 says that it is a touchback if the ball "...becomes dead in the possession of a
player on, above or behind his own goal line and the attacking team is
responsible for the ball being there". Also, approved ruling 8-6-1-II states "The ball is not automatically dead when intercepted. However, if in the judgment of the official there is perceptible time during which the Team B player made no attempt to advance after the interception, declaring a touchback is justified." I think this gives us the wiggle room we need to justify calling a TB on the play you describe.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by AndrewMcCarthy

But his forward most progress IS the 1.

I see the confusion on what I said, but I meant his progress on "his own accord" not the opponent hitting him. The above AR hits what I was getting at.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by AndrewMcCarthy

But his forward most progress IS the 1.

Is there such a thing as BACKWARD PROGRESS?

Bob

[Mark Dexter]

Could an argument be made that, since the succeeding spot would be the 20 yard line in case of a touchback, the 20-yard line is, in fact, the forward-most progress?

[AndrewMcCarthy]

I always ask myself- where was the ball is when it became dead?

Per NF rules the ball becomes dead when "a runner is held so his forward progress is stopped."

Forward progress is defined as "the end of advancement of the ball in a runner’s possession... toward the opponent’s goal and determines the dead-ball spot."

From this I believe you have to give them the ball at the 1. The rules do not include any type of special exception for this play.

[Forksref]

My exception is common sense. If he made no effort to leave the EZ, I have a TB. I see this as no different than a runner on a scrimmage play advancing from his EZ to the 1 and then being pushed back into the EZ. He didn't cause the ball to go back into the EZ, so there is not safety, and, in the above-mentioned play, the player who intercepted the ball did not cause the ball to leave the EZ. TB

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Originally Posted by Forksref

My exception is common sense. If he made no effort to leave the EZ, I have a TB. I see this as no different than a runner on a scrimmage play advancing from his EZ to the 1 and then being pushed back into the EZ. He didn't cause the ball to go back into the EZ, so there is not safety, and, in the above-mentioned play, the player who intercepted the ball did not cause the ball to leave the EZ. TB

The key difference being that your ruling in your play is backed up by the rules while your ruling on the play above is not. On your play a live ball never went back into the end zone because it became dead when his forward progress was stopped at the 1.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Forksref

If he made no effort to leave the EZ,

This is a dangerous, and misleading, rule-wise, statement, when talking about the endzone and getting out of it, in my experience. I once heard a long-time varsity-level umpire make a statement on a runner making "effort to leave the end zone" related to whether or not he was going to call a safety on that player if they were then downed in the end zone.

Originally Posted by AndrewMcCarthy

I always ask myself- where was the ball is when it became dead?

Per NF rules the ball becomes dead when "a runner is held so his forward progress is stopped."

Forward progress is defined as "the end of advancement of the ball in a runner’s possession... toward the opponent’s goal and determines the dead-ball spot."

From this I believe you have to give them the ball at the 1.

Agreed.

[baldgriff]

While I agree that this would be correct by the letter of the law, I dont think it is fair to penalize the intercepting team for getting pushed out of the endzone after making a good play.