Monday Night: Catch

[bluezebra]

Joe T is the football version of Tim McCarver.

Bob

[rulesmaven]

The nfl rulebook is very difficult to find. I think the rule might be 3-7, but I don't have the rulebook in front of me. That just seems to stick out in my memory from the discussion after the Troy Palamalu situation.

Football is not my sport, but I thought I remember hearing about some clarifications for precisely this issue. As noted already in this thread, the rules (interpretations?) were changed to be more possession friendly -- that is, to maintain possession for the receiving team and avoid difficult gray area fumble/not fumble situations. That, of course, is the irony of last night. The rule that was invoked to make it an incomplete pass was one intended to protect the offense and avoid calling a fumble, but since the ball went out of bounds (instead of in the hands of a defender) the rule worked against the offensive team.

Anyway, as I thought I understood what was being discussed after the rule changes, there are two situations -- first is where the player establishes a legal catch before a tackle starts and the second is where the tackle is in progress before the catch has been established. Not sure if I'm saying that right, but essentially, if the player possesses the ball and establishes both feet in bounds, and then makes the infamaous "football move," it's a catch, and a subsequent loss of posession before the end of the play will be a fumble. The caveat, though, is where a player on the other team begins a tackle before the catch is established. In this second situation, the player needs to maintain control throughout, down to the ground.

Seems like Belichick knew the rule and quickly reminded the official on the spot, and it was upheld.

Or I'm crazy and just misremembering all this and it was a questionable call.

[Two Call]

NFL rule 3-2-7:
A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds. To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet completly on the ground inbounds or any other part of his body, other than his hands, on the ground inbounds. If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground if there is anby doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession.
A catch is made when a palyer inbounds secures possession of a pass, kick or fumble in flight.

8-1-5:
Any forward pass legal or illegal becomes incompelte and the ball is dead immediately if the pass strikes the ground or goes out of bounds.

Sorry for the misspells. I'm on my way out the door.

[l3will]

Of course, it makes one wonder what would have been the call if the play had happened in the end zone.

[NickelDeuce]

Good point 3will. The endzone, in the NFL, is officiated by the officials on the field the same way as any other place on the field, but it's officiated differently in the replay booth. The guys on the field will still call that pass incomplete but replay may reverse it to a TD.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

Anyway, as I thought I understood what was being discussed after the rule changes, there are two situations -- first is where the player establishes a legal catch before a tackle starts and the second is where the tackle is in progress before the catch has been established. Not sure if I'm saying that right, but essentially, if the player possesses the ball and establishes both feet in bounds, and then makes the infamaous "football move," it's a catch, and a subsequent loss of posession before the end of the play will be a fumble. The caveat, though, is where a player on the other team begins a tackle before the catch is established. In this second situation, the player needs to maintain control throughout, down to the ground.

Seems like Belichick knew the rule and quickly reminded the official on the spot, and it was upheld.

Or I'm crazy and just misremembering all this and it was a questionable call.

I've watched the play again, and Wiggins made the catch, turned up field and took at least one step BEFORE contact was made by the defender, another step before he was getting wrapped up, then as he is falling to the ground the defender rips the ball out. He clearly had posession and made a move before the tackle was initiated.

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by gsf23

I've watched the play again, and Wiggins made the catch, turned up field and took at least one step BEFORE contact was made by the defender, another step before he was getting wrapped up, then as he is falling to the ground the defender rips the ball out. He clearly had posession and made a move before the tackle was initiated.

Perhaps you're right about that. But if that's what we're talking about here -- the question whether the football move started before or after the tackle began -- it's just a simple judgment call that could go either way, no different from dozens of close plays every day in the NFL. It's certainly not worthy of Theisman's ire or the attention paid to it.

All that said, as I said, I have no idea if I'm actually correct about the interpretation.