Extra Down

parepat · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 06, 2001, 02:58pm

Interesting Situation. Second and 10 at the 50. A. Commits and offensive pass interference. Penalty is assessed but the referee and crew erroneously do not penalize the loss of down. B's coaches scream but are unable to get a time out prior to A running the next play, which the crew has as 2nd. B then gets a timeout and request a coach-referee conference. If you are the referee, what do you do.

Thoughts. Conference rule states you can't change misapplication of the rules after the ball has been snapped for the next down. However, isn't the mistake on the down being perpetuated with every down until the end of the series, thus, one can argue that the correction can occur until the series has ended. Our association could not agree on a clear cut solution. Help. Thanks.

Zeke5 · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 06, 2001, 06:22pm

By rule, you have to tell the coach that you screwed up and unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it at this point and take the heat.

But, depending on game situation, level of play (JV, Frosh), rapport with other coach, I might suggest we correct things.

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 06, 2001, 09:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by parepat
Interesting Situation. Second and 10 at the 50. A. Commits and offensive pass interference. Penalty is assessed but the referee and crew erroneously do not penalize the loss of down. B's coaches scream but are unable to get a time out prior to A running the next play, which the crew has as 2nd. B then gets a timeout and request a coach-referee conference. If you are the referee, what do you do.

Thoughts. Conference rule states you can't change misapplication of the rules after the ball has been snapped for the next down. However, isn't the mistake on the down being perpetuated with every down until the end of the series, thus, one can argue that the correction can occur until the series has ended. Our association could not agree on a clear cut solution. Help. Thanks.

That's like saying that when a crew makes an error, that error perpetuates itself play after play after play after...see where I'm going. No, you can't view it that way. Well, you can but you'd be wrong.

Ed Hickland · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 07, 2001, 11:31am

No way can you "give" the down back. The rules are plain that once the ball is snapped the error cannot be corrected.

There is a good lesson here. How many officials on the field are charged with correctly enforcing penalties?

The answer is everyone.

How many officials should know the rules?

The same answer everyone.

As a referee I spend a great deal of time reviewing rules and situations just in case they happen. But even before becoming a referee I felt it was my job to know and understand the rules just in case that particular situation happened. I depend on any member of my crew to correct me and not be afraid to step in.

Middleman · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 07, 2001, 11:54pm

I'll probably get some flack for saying this, but I'm going to let the coach have his conference, and I'm going to change the down, but only for one down. I do not view this as perpetuating the mistake from down to down. The error was not made in placing the ball, the error was made in playing the next down *as 2nd down,* and was not really an error until the down was actually played. Therefore, I would permit a challenge that the down just played should have been third down because of the loss-of-down provision.

But I would go no further. I would not allow a challenge any later than that 2nd/3rd down play, i.e. I would not let them play third down and then challenge that it should have been fourth down because of the mistake made on second down.

That's my opinion.

cw3Retired · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 12, 2001, 11:00am

Rule 3-6-11 covers this situation. I tend to agree with Middleman. The play run on 2nd down (which should have been 3rd) was in fact run with a rule misapplication in effect, and as such affected THAT play.

After my conference with B, we correct the down to 3rd, and continue from there.

Comments?

parepat · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 12, 2001, 03:12pm

Since I placed this post, I further searched the rule book and I think I found the answer. I can't give you citation since I don't have book in front of me, but it says that a correction on a down can be made throughout a series until the series ends or A gets a first down. Thanks for all the responses.

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 12, 2001, 04:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cw3Retired
Rule 3-6-11 covers this situation.

There's no such rule. I think you mean 3-5-11.

parepat, how about finding the rule that you're referring to. I can't find it.

Bawanna · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 14, 2001, 01:29pm

I tend to agree with middleman. I would be more likely to make the correction knowing that I would do the same for either team. However convincing the other coach of that sediment is not always easy, thus you should prepare to get a ear full. I think guys that it is important to remember that you are there for the athletes, not the coaches. Your goal is to ensure that the contest is run in a fair and safe manner. We are going to make mistakes that do NOT make the contest fair, but can be rectified if done in a timely manner. NO coach can argue if you infect have the best interests of the athletes in mind when calling a game.

parepat · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 14, 2001, 10:39pm

Refer to the casebook page 39 (first item under rule 5)
Question: What procedure is used to correct an error if it is discovered that A has been given a fifth down or not received for downs.

Answer:...the number of the down can be corrected until the series has ended.

Learn something new every day.