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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 09, 2001, 07:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hickland
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeke5

45 seconds left in the game and A is leading by 1 point. 2nd & 3 from B's 40, A32 dives up the middle and is facemasked, but continues on for a touchdown. With 38 seconds left, A captain decides that it would be best to take the penalty and run the clock out instead of the TD and kick off (A had 2 failed 2 point conversions and their kick off team gave up 2 touchdowns already to the state's best returner).

A has the right to accept this penalty this year, but where do you assess the penalty from?
It is fundamental, that is, Fundamental 47 -- No penalty directly results in a safety, but if a distance penalty is enforced from behind the offender's goal line toward his end line, it is a safety.

A has the choice of declining the penalty, taking the touchdown for six points, plus, the point after, then kicking off to B.

Or, A can accept the penalty, taking the safety for two points and having B free kick giving A possible possession.
How did a safety become involved in this discussion?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 09, 2001, 07:50pm
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Lightbulb

The enforcement spot for a penalty committed by a team in its own end zone toward the end line is a safety. If A wants to accept the penalty, the end of the run and the spot of enforcement according to the all-but-one principle is the end zone. A foul by B is enforced from the end of the run.

Remember, if A76 holds B75 in the A's end zone, the result is a safety. Why? Because the spot of the foul is behind the LOS and in the end zone.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 09, 2001, 08:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hickland
The enforcement spot for a penalty committed by a team in its own end zone toward the end line is a safety. If A wants to accept the penalty, the end of the run and the spot of enforcement according to the all-but-one principle is the end zone. A foul by B is enforced from the end of the run.

Remember, if A76 holds B75 in the A's end zone, the result is a safety. Why? Because the spot of the foul is behind the LOS and in the end zone.
Ed, buddy, everything you've said is correct. However, the word safety or a play involving a safety hasn't been mentioned in the entire post. Suddenly, you just started posting about Fund. 47 and safeties.

Have you been drinking?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2001, 02:04pm
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Wrong

How is it that you can give A a safety in B's Endzone. The rule that you are trying to follow is a rule for offensive penalties. In this case A has scored a touchdown and they will be awarded six points. The question is on the enforcement. The answer is there is none.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2001, 08:55pm
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Re: Wrong

Quote:
Originally posted by hlbrett
How is it that you can give A a safety in B's Endzone. The rule that you are trying to follow is a rule for offensive penalties. In this case A has scored a touchdown and they will be awarded six points. The question is on the enforcement. The answer is there is none.
That's what I'm asking. Somehow, Ed got mixed up and started talking about a safety.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2001, 11:56pm
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Cool Re: Re: Wrong

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by hlbrett
How is it that you can give A a safety in B's Endzone. The rule that you are trying to follow is a rule for offensive penalties. In this case A has scored a touchdown and they will be awarded six points. The question is on the enforcement. The answer is there is none.
That's what I'm asking. Somehow, Ed got mixed up and started talking about a safety.
No drinking here!

Remember Zeke said in the original question months ago B facemasked A who somehow still managed to score. (Got to recruit that guy)

Now A has a few problems with extra points and they seem to kick it to the kid that runs through them like a hot knife thru butter.

And what Zeke wanted to know how you could enforce a penalty on B.

Remember, until this year A would have had to take the touchdown and kick it to B.

A now has a choice of accepting the penalty. But the enforcement spot is in the endzone -- a foul by B is enforced at the end of the run.

Apply Fund 47, after all the spot is in B's endzone. You cannot walk off yardage. But remember a foul by a team in it's endzone is always a safety.

It seems strange to me a team would give up 6 points to keep possession of the ball. But I have seen such in my years.

So, if this happens to you, a foul against B where the enforcement spot is in the endzone. Award a safety.

Also, take a look at NFHS Part 2 question 56.

If only the football was not elongated.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 11, 2001, 07:05am
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This topic has gotten a "little" silly.

Ed, the end of the run is the goal line, not the end zone, and I surely would not give the option of a safety.

I'm not going give A any option in this case. There's no enforcement spot.

Surely, this was an oversight to the Rules committee, and I'm not looking at it any differently than if K kicked off from R's 20 (after a series of dead ball penalties on R) and the ball rolled out of bounds untouched by R at R's 3. The 25 yards from previous free kick line is not an enforceable spot, so I won't offer it as an option to R.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 11, 2001, 09:03am
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Re: Re: Re: Wrong

Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hickland
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by hlbrett
How is it that you can give A a safety in B's Endzone. The rule that you are trying to follow is a rule for offensive penalties. In this case A has scored a touchdown and they will be awarded six points. The question is on the enforcement. The answer is there is none.
That's what I'm asking. Somehow, Ed got mixed up and started talking about a safety.
No drinking here!

Remember Zeke said in the original question months ago B facemasked A who somehow still managed to score. (Got to recruit that guy)

Now A has a few problems with extra points and they seem to kick it to the kid that runs through them like a hot knife thru butter.

And what Zeke wanted to know how you could enforce a penalty on B.

Remember, until this year A would have had to take the touchdown and kick it to B.

A now has a choice of accepting the penalty. But the enforcement spot is in the endzone -- a foul by B is enforced at the end of the run.

Apply Fund 47, after all the spot is in B's endzone. You cannot walk off yardage. But remember a foul by a team in it's endzone is always a safety.

It seems strange to me a team would give up 6 points to keep possession of the ball. But I have seen such in my years.

So, if this happens to you, a foul against B where the enforcement spot is in the endzone. Award a safety.

Also, take a look at NFHS Part 2 question 56.

If only the football was not elongated.
Okay Ed, you're not drunk but you're defnitely confused. There's no way on earth this play is a safety. It's a touchdown. B doesn't have possession of the ball nor did they force a ball from the field of play through their EZ. A has the ball. For that reason alone, you can't have a safety.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 11, 2001, 09:05am
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Wrong

Okay Ed, you're not drunk but you're defnitely confused.

There's no way on earth this play is a safety. It's a touchdown. The foul by B when the ball is in B's EZ only applies when B has the ball. B doesn't have possession of the ball nor did they force a ball from the field of play through their EZ. A has the ball. For that reason alone, you can't have a safety.
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