Auburn-LSU PI non-call
 

Question for those who saw the LSU-Auburn game or highlights. Pass is thrown but the DB tackles the intended receiver before the ball gets there. Also before the ball gets there, the ball is tipped by another DB. The ruling on the field was since the ball was tipped there is no PI and since the hold happened before the tip, there is no holding so the flag was waved off. I looked up the rules on ncaa.org and that appears to be the correct call. Since the next game I officiate will be my first, what are your thoughts?

It wasn't DPI because the ball was batted away and was uncatchable, not because it was touched by B ending restrictions.

It was DPI all the way. Really wasn't even that close. The BJ makes a great DPI call and got talked in to picking it up. The contact happened before the ball was tipped. I think in that particular play, since the DB that tipped the ball was so close to the other DB that made the contact, touching shouldn't have been an issue.

So, Nickel ... you think this ball was catchable?!?!?!

The SEC Supervisor does NOT agree with you and that pretty much says it all.

Pass was not catchable. I no longer think it's DPI.

Then what?
 

No pass interference huh? Well at a minimum this should be holding don't you think?http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/917/016066628na7.jpg

And what about
 

What about the call earlier in the game where Jesse Daniels intercepts the ball and they call pass interference? A pass that is intercepted is clearly uncatchable. Let's not forget the Jacob Hester fumble that is ruled an incomplete pass.

So what you are saying is any contact is a foul? If that is what you are saying, you need to do more research as an official. Also holding you would have to actually hold someone. Two players diving and jumping in the air is not quite holding. I saw the replay and I have no problem with the call. The receiver never had a chance at the ball. You have to have a chance to catch the ball to have DPI in NCAA rules.

Peace

I'm Sorry
 

Sorry I didn't realize they were both jumping in the air at the time the foul was committed. Can I get a Pac-10 official in here with an apology?

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/1790/006aij2.jpg

Here is the play in question

I found it on youtube.

You still have to be able to catch the pass. Where the pass is ends up matters. Showing all the angles does not change that fact. If that contact took place and the ball was not touched and ended up in the back of the EZ, then it would not be a foul. The officials got this right and maybe why you have not heard an apology or any reference about this play from the SEC.

Peace

Seems to me
 

Seems that without the defenders arm draped around the receiver he could have adjusted to at least have a play on the ball. I am by no means a football official (basketball, and yes I have blown calls), but a play that affects the outcome, was called on the field, but overturned by replay officials seemed odd. I know it happens but in the manner that the officials met, discussed, walked to the sidelines, made the announcement and then overturned. And before anyone asks, yes I have LSU season tickets. I wish this could have been sorted out by traditional means.

Actually the SEC has spoken and Rogers Redding confirmed both close calls were correctly dealt with.

I do not know that I agree with that. I have been a football official for some time know and I have no idea how the receiver would have been able to "adjust" and make a play on a play of this nature. But an uncatchable ball is a judgment call.

I was under the impression that the officials on the field made this decision and this was not made by the replay official at all. You cannot review a penalty situation in the first place.

I think you are clouded by your affiliation of the LSU Tigers. Once again, the play was changed by the officials on the field. This has been said a few times just on this board. Even on the tape, the play was changed by the officials and there was no review from the replay officials. Sounds pretty traditional to me. ;)

Peace

Thanks.

Peace

He has spoken. It doesn't mean that right calls were made, it means they were "correctly dealt with". Interpretation: I stand by the calls my men made on the field because they are my men. I have been here a time or two in basketball. We take our lumps, we shove on and play the next game. Congrats to AU though, they clearly (at this point) have a top 2 team. This game would have killed lesser men.

One more point
 

Is it just me or could this promote the tackling of receivers with a defender knocking the ball away and this become accepted as it was not catchable? Playing devils advocate here. And still kind of hacked off as you can tell. I am not one of those guys that come here to aggravate a situation, I have been a lurker on the basketball forum for a while refining the trade.

BTW, you can tackle a reciever if the ball is not catchable (while the ball is in the air).

You can give all the angles you like, the pass was not catchable. When a pass is not catchable, short of a personal foul you can make contact with a reciever. Also the only way this could be holding is if the ball was not in the air. The contact took place clearly while the ball is in the air. If the ball was tipped at the LOS, a defender could contact the reciever to prevent them from making the catch. You are just searching for an answer you are not going to get.

Peace

I realize you may not know much about Rogers Redding yet but since your school is in his conference, you are going to come to know him. And what you will find is that he WILL NOT make that kind of decision. He is going to go with what is right. I ddi not use his exact words but they were much more specific than "correclty dealt with". He explained why there could be no DPI as the ball was uncatchable.

jRutledge is right on. I had a problem with this at first but it all comes down to the fact that the second auburn defender deflects the ball away making it uncatchable for the receiver. You don't have DPI on an uncatchable pass.

The DB that the deflected the pass saved his teammate from getting a DPI call. It's tough but it's correct.

Absolutely, and if you just said I was right I would at least feel a little better!:D

Broker,

What you and everybody I've heard gripe about this call have ignored is that the ball was well underthrown. The angle that Doucet was taking to the end zon was far too wide for the ball to have connected with him had there not been pass interference; without contact on the receiver and the ball, the ball is thrown well behind Doucet, who would not have been able to do a "stop180," which is what he would have had to do, from a full sprint, to catch the ball. The irony is that it was the grab by the Auburn defender that created a situation in which the ball at least had a chance to be caught; until, that is, it was knocked away, making it, for the second time, uncatchable.

jb

BTTT.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?p=521129

It's just you. The kids are talented but you'd never be able to coach this. Not in a million years.

Mike-Do you know if he specifically mentioned or confirmed that the B was correct to throw his flag? Meaning that you throw and then, in a case like this, you have the need for someone on your crew to pull you off.

Let's try this:

Basically, Redding is to NCAA rules as Moses was to the Ten Commandments.

I don't recall RR talking to that issue (not something the media or crazed LSU fans would much care about anyway). If memory serves, flag was thrown by B and the F was the one who advised pass was not catchable. I can't imagine any supervisor who would want his guys to do otherwise. If you see it as a foul and believe pass was catchable you should flag. But others on the crew might have had a better angle and might be able to give you input that causes you to change your opinionof what you "saw". In that case it seems perfectly acceptable to allow yourself to be "taken off the call".

For the record, the SI still photo is a perfect example of what I have been screaming about for years now, camera perspective distortion. The SI Photographer is obviously using a huge telephoto lens. The result is it make the Auburn defender who knocked the ball away look much closer to the receiver than they were in reality. The video makes clear there was at least 2 yards of separation but the photo makes it look like they were right together. And for anyone who thinks the receiver might have been able to make a play on the ball had he not been held...he had to stop his pattern and jump up as the ball did not lead him enough. He was off the ground, not on the ground trying to run forward to the ball. Meanwhile, forward is where the defender knocked the ball away, making it uncatchable.

First of all, I agree with the no call. Ball is uncatchable. However, in the first pic posted, I *think* the players look closer than they actually are. The Auburn defender that tipped the ball, when he tipped it, was at least 2 yards in front of the receiver with the receiver moving even further away at the time.

NOW, take the same situation but one where the tip by the second defender is close enough that you believe that without the contact by the first defender, the pass is catchable. In other words, put this same play closer. Do you have DPI then? I hate to sound like I'm thinking too much into it, but I think you have to consider it then.

Yup.

IMHO, if the tip comes after illegal contact, and the ball is catchable after the tip, the DPI (or OPI) still remains a possibility.

From the overhead shot it looks like the illegal contact caused caused the receiver not to be in position to make a reasonable attempt to catch the ball, of course, the officials did not have an overhead shot.

The defender obviously felt he was beat and interfering was the only way to prevent a touchdown, needless did he know his teammate would break up the pass.

Two things: we should blame Jamarcus Russell for throwing such a poor pass. For us NFHS guys this is pass interference since every pass is defined as catchable.

It is gonna take more than just being closer. In this play, the receiver has already left his feet so there is no way he is going to be able to go forward. He jumped straight up to stop his momentum from his route as the pass was on a line to go slightly behind him (but catchable had it not been cut off by the defender). If he had stayed on the ground you absolutely have to give him the benefit of the doubt but by jumping straight up, he has taken away any chance of moving himself forward to even compete for the ball.

This account is 100% accurate.