Illegal Sub/Participation/Formation?

[kdf5]

I don't have my books but I don't believe you'd have IP in either scenario. Technically, you'd have a formation foul in both. I'll leave it to you to decide whether R's noticing him or not is a flag or not. Some say they'd flag it if he's not covered and wouldn't if he is.

[Jim D]

This is a foul for illegal formation. It is 7-2-1 "after the ball is ready for play...each substitute must have been, momentarily, between the 9-yard marks, befor the snap." The legality of an offensive formation in not, in any way, dependent of whether the defense has the sub covered.

[NWMORef]

Originally Posted by Jim D

This is a foul for illegal formation. It is 7-2-1 "after the ball is ready for play...each substitute must have been, momentarily, between the 9-yard marks, befor the snap." The legality of an offensive formation in not, in any way, dependent of whether the defense has the sub covered.

I don't think that 7-2-1 applies because the ball will not be snapped.
It would be IP (9-6-4e) if subtitute would enter immediately before the free kick. Other wise you don't anything.
In side or outside the 9 yrd mark has no bearing on a free kick.

[golfnref]

Originally Posted by NWMORef

I don't think that 7-2-1 applies because the ball will not be snapped.
It would be IP (9-6-4e) if subtitute would enter immediately before the free kick. Other wise you don't anything.
In side or outside the 9 yrd mark has no bearing on a free kick.

The original question had team K in punt formation not a free kick. A snap will definitely occur to put the ball in play.

[Warrenkicker]

This is a scrimmage kick and not a free kick. Also there is no rule against entering the field just before the snap. This isn't Canada, if they can get on and get set then let them do it.

In both situations it is, by the book, illegal formation under 7-2-1. 7-2-1 has no get-out-of-jail-free provision based on if the defense covers the player.

However some officials might say that in situation A, and possibly B (but that is a harder case to prove), there was also intent to deceive the defense into thinking this player was not in the game and have illegal participation under 9-6-4d. This might be a case where a wing has the foul for illegal formation and then the kickers throw the ball to the player who came on late because he was uncovered. In this situation the call might change from IF to IP whereas if they just punt the ball then it would probably stay as IF.

[NWMORef]

Originally Posted by NWMORef

I don't think that 7-2-1 applies because the ball will not be snapped.
It would be IP (9-6-4e) if subtitute would enter immediately before the free kick. Other wise you don't anything.
In side or outside the 9 yrd mark has no bearing on a free kick.

Your are right my error. 7-2-1 applies for Illegal formation in both sit a & B