TH, I'll try it over here.

[devdog69]

Being bored this afternoon, I was thumbing through some old posts on another board and saw a
couple of plays you put up for discussion. Play #2 about the false start at the end of the game, in
particular, I was unsatisfied with the answers given. What was the outcome of your discussion
and/or what is the official answer? Thanks.

For the rest of you here is the play:

Tie game with time running out. A's ball 1st and goal at B's 2 yard line. The clock is running. A64
is
called for a false start with 2 seconds remaining on the clock. If the penalty is accepted by B,
does
A receive an untimed down if the clock expires before they can get the next play off?

[Schmidt MJ]

Originally posted by devdog69


Being bored this afternoon, I was thumbing through some old posts on another board and saw a
couple of plays you put up for discussion. Play #2 about the false start at the end of the game, in
particular, I was unsatisfied with the answers given. What was the outcome of your discussion
and/or what is the official answer? Thanks.




For the rest of you here is the play:

Tie game with time running out. A's ball 1st and goal at B's 2 yard line. The clock is running. A64
is
called for a false start with 2 seconds remaining on the clock. If the penalty is accepted by B,
does
A receive an untimed down if the clock expires before they can get the next play off?

NO! There is no untimed down in this situation. The period is extended because of a penalty only if it was for a foul committed DURING THE LAST TIMED DOWN OF THE PERIOD, and there was penalty acceptance. In order for it to occur during the down it must happen after the ball is snapped and before it is declared dead at the end of the play.
In this situation, A had better be on the line and ready to snap the ball when it is declared ready (after being set for a full second of course) or the clock will be allowed to expire.

[Theisey]

Not under NFHS rules...
The period is extended for an untimed down because the foul occurred during the last timed down and the penalty was accepted. Team B would be better off declining the penalty and Mr Ref better tell him that option.
Case book 3.3.3 Situation A.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Theisey
Not under NFHS rules...
The period is extended for an untimed down because the foul occurred during the last timed down and the penalty was accepted. Team B would be better off declining the penalty and Mr Ref better tell him that option.
Case book 3.3.3 Situation A.

Unless you can convince me otherwise Tom, I'm going to have to disagree with you. The penalty, a false start, didn't occur during the down. It occurred prior to the snap. A down doesn't begin until the ball is snapped. Therefore, there is no untimed down.

[Theisey]

Yeah, you may be right.. false start is a dead ball foul. The same would be true if Team B fouls prior to the snap.

[Ed Hickland]

Since A64 committed the false start before the down, acceptance of the penalty will not extend the period (3-3-3a).

However, if B committed encroachment and in the opinion of the referee the act was purposefully done in order to consume time 3-6-3 could be applied. The referee would order the clock to be stopped and started on the snap to allow team A to get the play off.

In a close game where the play could mean something, that would require one heck of a sales job!

[devdog69]

I guess my main question was why they didn't get a chance with two seconds on the clock. I never thought the untimed down was an option. I think I now, after re-reading the original question and your replies, of the scenario.

1. False start occurs with two seconds on the clock.
2. After stepping off the penalty, the clock starts on the ready to play signal?
3. A doesn't get a snap off before the clock expires.

At first I was imagining the clock not getting stopped for the penalty at the two second mark. What would happen then? Is it similar to basketball where the officials have to have "definite knowledge" of time on the clock to correct? Thanks again.

[BktBallRef]

Yes, it would be similiar.

4-4-6
The referee shall have authority to correct obvious errors in timing if discovery is prior to the second live ball following the error, unless the period has officially ended as in 3-3-4.

[stripes1977]

If there was definite knowledge (and I would hope someone would have looked at the clock in this situation) then that time could easily be put back on the clock. If for some reason everyone went brain dead (and time expired without anyone knowing) then team A would get one untimed down. I would like to think that someone would just say they knew the time remaining so as to avoid any further conflict. The situation is already going to be tense, trying to convince Team B's coach of why you are letting team A play with no time on the clock will not make it any better.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Unless you can convince me otherwise Tom, I'm going to have to disagree with you. The penalty, a false start, didn't occur during the down. It occurred prior to the snap. A down doesn't begin until the ball is snapped. Therefore, there is no untimed down.

Team A runs a play with 20 seconds left and A52 holds during the play which ends inbounds. There are 5 seconds left. If Team B accepts the penalty, there will be another down regardless of whether or not the clock expires. Correct?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mikesears

Team A runs a play with 20 seconds left and A52 holds during the play which ends inbounds. There are 5 seconds left. If Team B accepts the penalty, there will be another down regardless of whether or not the clock expires. Correct?

Yes, but the difference is that, in your play, the foul occurred during the down. In the play that was originally posted, the foul occurred before the down started. Therefore, no untimed down.

[stripes1977]

That's right Mike, because it happened during the last timed down. The thing about this play is that it happens after the ready for play has been blown...once that happens, the down has begun...so in this situation, if the penalty was marked off and the ball marked ready with 2 seconds remaining, then team A would have to be on the ball (clock starts on the ready) and snap before time expires or they would not get another play because that would be considered a new down as soon as the ready had been blown.

[stripes1977]

Someone look up the definition of a down please...I was under the belief that it starts with the ready and I see that BktBallRef says it starts with the snap of the ball. I just want to know which is true and I don't have my rulebook with me here at work.

[stripes1977]

Okay, nevermind....I was wrong...it says a down begins , after the ready, with the snap...shoot me.

[BktBallRef]

Bang!!