Bag or No Bag

[sm_bbcoach]

Wanted to be sure of myself on the use of bags.

QB in shotgun, snap goes over his head. IN the process, he attempts to pick it up but kicks it again. Finally he falls on it for a 29 yd loss. NO bag on this play, correct?

Which brought up the next question I think is correct: on a scrimmage kick. R32 muffs the kick and it rolls away from him. The bag should be placed at the point where possession is gained. correct?

Thanks for your help.

[kentref]

Originally Posted by sm_bbcoach

Wanted to be sure of myself on the use of bags.

QB in shotgun, snap goes over his head. IN the process, he attempts to pick it up but kicks it again. Finally he falls on it for a 29 yd loss. NO bag on this play, correct?

Which brought up the next question I think is correct: on a scrimmage kick. R32 muffs the kick and it rolls away from him. The bag should be placed at the point where possession is gained. correct?

Thanks for your help.

The QB never has possession so there can be no fumble so you are correct, you don't bag anything here. (Note: You say he, "kicks it again." I'm assuming you mean he inadvertently kicks it while trying to gain possession.)

Your second question: You are correct. You bag the end of the kick, which is where possession is established. In some cases the ball may become dead by rule (no one attempts to gain possession, the ball breaks the plane of the end zone, the ball goes out of bounds). You don't need to bag those situations because there is no action after that point and the covering official should have the dead ball spot.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: sm_bbcoach...just to follow up on kentref's post, the reason that you bag the end of a scrimmage kick is in case a foul by R enforceable under PSK is committed.

[DJ_NV]

Also in NF, by rule you never bag a fumble behind the LOS. There is no reason for it. I know that some guys feel that a bag *signals* a fumble, but I personally don't agree. Just remember that if you or someone on your crew does bag a fumble behind the LOS, you will never use the spot or yard line that you bagged.

NCAA is different, but only for fumbles that are forward OOB or 4th down and try plays. Otherwise, for penalty enforcement and IW issues, it's the same as Fed (though different 'rulebook' wording)

[BIG UMP]

Worked a scrimmage last week with another high school association's officials. We had an interception and they bagged the spot. I asked why and they said it was an enforcement spot.

Can someone tell me when we would use the spot of an interception for enforcement purposes?

I can't think of one and feel that their bagging this spot is wrong.

[DJ_NV]

There is never a reason to bag the spot of an interception in either code as it will never, ever be used as an enforcement spot. All the interception signifies from a penalty perspective is that it starts a new running play

[RoyGardner]

I agree that this is never an "enforcement spot". Penalties incurred during a return run on an intercepted pass will be enforced as either spot fouls or from the end of the run.

[JasonTX]

It's not neccesary to bad an interception for penatly enforcement purposes but it is neccesary to bag an interception for momentum exception purposes.

[SouthGARef]

Here is what's in the Georgia Officials Training manual about bean bags. I think it sums it up nicely:

A. PRIMARY SITUATIONS IN WHICH YOU WOULD USE THE BEANBAG:

Note: The beanbag should be used every time in the following.
1. Marking the spot a ball carrier lost possession of the ball on a fumble.
2. Marking the spot where a kick returner or defensive back gained control of the ball when his momentum carries him into the endzone.
3. Marking the spot where possession of a scrimmage kick is gained by the receiving team on a kick that has crossed the neutral zone expanded.

B. SECONDARY SITUATIONS IN WHICH YOU COULD USE THE BEANBAG:
1. Marking the spot where a ball carrier went out of bounds (in addition to standing on that spot).
NOTE: This mechanic should only be used in a five man crew.

2. Marking the forward progress of a ball carrier when he has been pushed back and there is continuing action on him.
NOTE: This mechanic should be used only by the Referee

C. HOW TO USE THE BEANBAG:
1. Since the beanbag is always used to mark a precise spot, it should be carried to that spot and dropped--or at least dropped on that yard line extended if you are not near that exact spot.
2. Keep the beanbag in your belt or in your hand and develop the habit of using it.
3. At the high school level, there is no need to mark the spot of ever change of possession.
4. Referees may find it helpful to mark forward progress of a passer who is being sacked with the beanbag. The flank officials are generally downfield and cannot help. The passer is being pushed back and the Referee must keep attention on that action. Deopping the beanbag and then moving to retrieve the ball is an easy process.
5. It is not a good idea to drop the beanbag on the out-of-bounds spot and then leave it to retrieve the ball. Even in a crew of four, this should be a last resort. Hold the spot and drop the beanbag just in case an unusual situation arises.

[Tom.OH]

SouthGARef, that is a good list but I have 1 to add to it. Make sure you thank the player who picks the bag up ,hands it to you and tells you "you dropped this".

[SouthGARef]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

SouthGARef, that is a good list but I have 1 to add to it. Make sure you thank the player who picks the bag up ,hands it to you and tells you "you dropped this".

Hasn't happened yet--However I have had a few instances in flag football where players would pick up flags, thinking they were doing us a favor.