Okay, those three plays from the Super Bowl....

[JasonTX]

Originally posted by carolinaRRREF
On the holding call, the defensive player was offside?

If I knew how to post pictures, I would, but if you pause the video right at the beginning, you'll see the ball still on the ground in the center's hand, and both the nose tackle AND the player that supposedly got held already in motion, stepping across the line.

If you have to use a still image to come to the conclusion he was offside, then how would you expect an official to make this call at full speed. Still images are deceiving. It's about at inconclusive as using a still image to say a receiver made a catch. You have to view these types of things in full speed and then make the call. Sure OPI may happen a lot, but how many times do we see a player right in front of the Back Judge get clear separation and then make the TD catch. You'd be a fool not to toss that flag. He'd probably be fired for not making that call.

[MJT]

Originally posted by carolinaRRREF
On the holding call, the defensive player was offside?

If I knew how to post pictures, I would, but if you pause the video right at the beginning, you'll see the ball still on the ground in the center's hand, and both the nose tackle AND the player that supposedly got held already in motion, stepping across the line.

This is my first post, but I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the reactions of the officials on this forum (although I understand). We tend to give our own the benefit of the doubt with calls, as we've all made mistakes, but that game was embarassing, for the following reasons:

The OPI may have been a legit call BY THE BOOK... but it's a call that never gets made. We can all say we'd call it, but in the Super Bowl, who really would? That play happens on every passing play in football, and gets called twice a year. If you're going to make it a point of emphasis, do it all season, not at the most crucial point of the most important game, after a full season of non-calls. To say it was called according to the rules is a cop-out... you can call holding on every play, illegal formation on every play, and illegal contact on every play, but you don't, because you let the players play.

The holding call referenced above -- If that's holding, then there is nothing an offensive lineman can do legally. The man was offsides, then got on his outside. The lineman put one hand squarely on his chest and pushed him, never grabbed him. The stills are misleading, as they show him sliding off, but there was no grab. The telling pic would be after the supposed hold, the defensive player never protested. When was the last time you had a defensive player say he WASN'T held?

Illegal block was without a doubt the worst call in the history of football. No excuse for not huddling up to discuss that and pick up the flag.

I've been officiating high school and college football for 20 years, and I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night if I was on that crew. Defend your brethren all you want, but look at it objectively and you'll see it was a terribly called game.

The BBW was a wrong call, but the others were fine.

The OPI only gets called twice a year but happens EVERY GAME!! You exaggerate like my wife!! OPI not called when the receiver displaces the defender and catches the ball for a TD in the super bowl, that would really be a great time to decide to NOT have the balls to make the call.

[JugglingReferee]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5314440

[MJT]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5314440

That is good enough for me. The NFL says when they make mistakes so if they were happy, then it is just bias fans whining. Like that never happens.

[Franknbeans]

How about the block on Roethlisberger after he tossed his 2nd interception... What is the general consensus on that among you official types?

Check these out granted they're small...

http://www.lucas-mullen.info/images/xl/cap0013.jpg
http://www.lucas-mullen.info/images/xl/cap0014.jpg



[Edited by Franknbeans on Feb 8th, 2006 at 09:36 AM]

[cmathews]

Still images are really hard to judge a BIB by, or any play for that matter as stated above. When it happened (semi) live I thought it was a penalty...on the replay it shows the guy gets him in the side of the ribs then the back of the shoulder then slides to the back...all legal in my opinion

[carolinaRRREF]

That is good enough for me. The NFL says when they make mistakes so if they were happy, then it is just bias fans whining. Like that never happens.

This HAS to be a joke.

There were two blatantly bad calls: the illegal block, and the timeout that was granted well after the play clock hit zero.

On top of that, there were half a dozen extremely questionable calls, all going against the same team, including one where the quarterback involved said on national TV he didn't score. To me, that gives the "whiners" a valid point.

The NFL could have done two things; 1) admit there were some mistakes, adding fuel to the fire and getting the refs linched next time they're in Seattle, or 2) deny everything and hope the offseason heals all wounds.

They took the easy way out and said "they did fine, end of story". If that's "good enough for you" in face of the evidence, then you're a sad, sad excuse for an official.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Franknbeans
How about the block on Roethlisberger after he tossed his 2nd interception... What is the general consensus on that among you official types?

Check these out granted they're small...

http://www.lucas-mullen.info/images/xl/cap0013.jpg
http://www.lucas-mullen.info/images/xl/cap0014.jpg

I saw this on TiVo several times. The first contact was with the shoulder first and the right hand contacted the back which was second. This was a good no call.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by carolinaRRREF
That is good enough for me. The NFL says when they make mistakes so if they were happy, then it is just bias fans whining. Like that never happens.

This HAS to be a joke.

There were two blatantly bad calls: the illegal block, and the timeout that was granted well after the play clock hit zero.

On top of that, there were half a dozen extremely questionable calls, all going against the same team, including one where the quarterback involved said on national TV he didn't score. To me, that gives the "whiners" a valid point.

The NFL could have done two things; 1) admit there were some mistakes, adding fuel to the fire and getting the refs linched next time they're in Seattle, or 2) deny everything and hope the offseason heals all wounds.

They took the easy way out and said "they did fine, end of story". If that's "good enough for you" in face of the evidence, then you're a sad, sad excuse for an official.

I disagree. The NFL grades every official on every single play. Not just by one or two plays, EVERY PLAY. There are always mistakes with coverage or even judgment calls. Why would they come out and say there were mistakes in this game because there was one mistake. Remember the NFL is not the media. They know what they teach their officials to do and every call for the most part followed their teachings. The only call that was messed up was the Hassleback BBW. I am sure calls like that are made all the time during the season and you never hear about it. The NFL knows what percentages of calls were correct or not correct. I bet the things they even had a problem with the media would not know what to talk about as it related to those plays. The NFL does not have to validate what uneducated media members think. BTW, the NFL Network reviews the officials every week. I am sure something will be talked about there. This has been done all season long.

Peace

[cmathews]

Originally posted by carolinaRRREF
That is good enough for me. The NFL says when they make mistakes so if they were happy, then it is just bias fans whining. Like that never happens.

This HAS to be a joke.

There were two blatantly bad calls: the illegal block, and the timeout that was granted well after the play clock hit zero.

so mr rrref, do you know when the time out was requested or only when the referee signalled time out??? Try this scenario: Play clock running down at 1 second the coach screams "TIME OUT" the official hears it and checks the play clock and sees 1 second, the official now glances to the sideline to confirm that it was the head coach that requested the time out,the play clock is now at 0. The official grants and signals the time out, the clock has now read 0 for a second or so...no foul for delay of game. There are times, for several reasons, that the time out request is heard and acknowledged, and made in time, and the actual granting takes a little while to get processed....

[JasonTX]

Originally posted by cmathews

so mr rrref, do you know when the time out was requested or only when the referee signalled time out??? Try this scenario: Play clock running down at 1 second the coach screams "TIME OUT" the official hears it and checks the play clock and sees 1 second, the official now glances to the sideline to confirm that it was the head coach that requested the time out,the play clock is now at 0. The official grants and signals the time out, the clock has now read 0 for a second or so...no foul for delay of game. There are times, for several reasons, that the time out request is heard and acknowledged, and made in time, and the actual granting takes a little while to get processed....

Exactly. Another reason is this. The Back Judge is responsible for the play clock. The Referee is the one that the QB turned to and signaled timeout. The Referee had no idea the clock was on zero since that's not his responsibility, the Back Judge isn't watching to see if a timeout is being called before he tosses the flag. So the two officials come together to determine what happened first and clearly there is no way of knowing if the T/O was first or the Delay, so the logical thing to do is go with the T/O. If you watch the game again you'll actually see the headlinesman running in signalling timeout, and that would indicate to me that the head coach called timeout prior to the clock hitting zero and prior to the QB calling for timeout. But the NFL philosophy is to go with the T/O instead of the delay of game in those close plays like that.

[prosec34]

Originally posted by carolinaRRREF

On top of that, there were half a dozen extremely questionable calls, all going against the same team, including one where the quarterback involved said on national TV he didn't score. To me, that gives the "whiners" a valid point.

[/B]

That's the biggest joke I've seen in criticizing the goalline call, that Ben says he didn't think he scored.

How in the world would he know for sure? He's not watching down the line, specifically looking for the ball to break the plane.

[sloth]

I don't think anyone will debate the BBW call. However, the OPI was a good call in my book. I'm all for letting them play...and had that contact occured 2 seconds before it did, I would have held my flag. In this instance you have a reciever clearly gaining seperation and an advantage a fraction of a second before the ball is caught. It may have not been a visable reaction by the defender, but IMHO the defender could have been in position to at least deflect the ball had the arm not been used by the reciever.

When it coumes down to it, most of these are judgement calls. Is the same for all of us that wear the stripes. Do you call a minor hold on a wide out when he's getting blocked at the line and the play is a dive up the middle? no. Do you call a Jr. High game as tight as you call a varsity? I suspect not. This was the Super Bowl. A match up between the two best teams in the league. There is no excuse for not calling the game as tight as it was called. And the calls that were made (O-line holding that brought back a TD and the OPI) were infractions that occured and gave the offending team a distinct advantage.

[mikesears]

I've tried to stay out of the arguments about the officiating. When you wrestle with pigs .......

I don't feel that I can be silent any longer.

It has often been said that even average officials can look good when a game is played by two great teams. But even a great official can look terrible when the game is played by two poor teams. Frankly, this superbowl was played by two poorly prepared teams. All of the dropped passes, the missed assignments, the terrible clock management, etc.

The officiating was fine. Nearly every forum I have visited has new members or annonymous posters who want to bash the officiating. Some of them even claim to be fellow officials with extensive experience. (It's funny how they all come out of the woodwork after a big game).

I don't see what all the commotion is about. Even on the night of the Super Bowl, I thought the officiating was pretty good. My belief is further validated because many of the regulars that I have come to respect think that the officiating was pretty good too. Some may claim that we are just sticking together because we are officials. BOLOGNA! If you have frequented this forum often, you will know that we aren't afraid to discuss the SPECIFICS of what we felt could have been done better. There are examples of plays from the Super Bowl scatterd about on the forum. (i.e. the mechanics of the dead ball then touchtown signal, the illegal block below the waist call).

To those of you who are generalizing about how poor the officiating was, come up with some specific examples. Otherwise your post will have little meaning and sound like sour grapes (no matter how you attempt to clarify yourselves).

To the guys in stripes who worked the Super Bowl, I say KUDOS for a job well done. To the NFL, I would encourage you to ignore the rantings of the TV personalities and the fans. The game officials did a fine job.

[OverAndBack]

Originally posted by carolinaRRREF
The OPI may have been a legit call BY THE BOOK... but it's a call that never gets made.

Makes you wonder why it's still IN THE BOOK, then, doesn't it?

We can all say we'd call it, but in the Super Bowl, who really would? [/B]

If it was right in front of me, with 140 million TV viewers (many of them officials, and one of them Mike Pereira), I would hope to God I'd make that call. Why wouldn't you? It's the right call. You were in the right position. IT'S THE RULE.