Hey I am not a football official in fact I am a player so I don't know much, but to me it seemed like the touchdown that was called back in football 40 was kinda tacky. Was that really offensive pass interfearence. I play defense and from what I saw that stuff happens all the time and is never called. What do you guys think?

I think the receiver shouldn't have pushed off. :D

GO STEELERS!!!

The seperation the receiver had from the defender to make the catch was gained when he extended his arm into the defender's chest and pushed off. Maybe it doesn't get called all the time, but how many times is it RIGHT in front of an official like this one was?

Clearly a foul, and clearly a correct call.

That push off penalty was crap. It never gets called all season and then you ticky tack it here.

That Hasselback fumble call just proves how bad this crew was. The ground doesn't cause fumbles and it should never have needed to be reviewed and reversed.

When did Big Ben cross the goal line. The ball only touched the paint when he was flat on his belly with three guys on top of him.

Horrible officiating and the world got to see it all.

The push was a good call, if he hadn't pushed off, he wouldn't have made the catch.

The fumble call was good to let it go to replay. If he would have gone down untouched, it would have been a fumble. The touching by the defense seemed very slight and could easily have been missed on the field. This is one case where the ground could cause a fumble under NFL rules.

The touchdown was close. It looked like it may have crossed the plane before he was hit and knocked back. Watching it in slow motion on TIVO, it was hard to tell and definetely should not have been overturned.

Overall, I think the crew did a good job.

Guys, seriously, I feel they did a good job overall. The push off OPI was a good call. The push by the receiver caused the separation.

The fumble was a good no call with replay. The contact was small and would've been difficult to see for many of the guys. If he wasn't touched, it would have been a fumble according to NFL rules. No "gound can't cause a fumble" in that scenario.

On the Roth TD, you can see that the ball while in his arm crossed the goal line, heck, it was even reviewed and upheld.

On the holding penalties, all good calls. The LB and DL got past the OLman and they hooked them. Once the defensemen was past the lineman, he had his hand outstretched to the right and held him. All good calls.

Well, at least the all seemed like the right calls to me from the confines of my couch.

Guys, keep i9n mind that Pat4Life, Dave30, and yankeesfan are not football officials, they're just fanboys.

Just ignore them until the mod gets here.

Reffing intramural flag football doesn't count, yankeesfan.

You've illustrated over and over gain on this site that you're not an official. Nothing you say is going to change anyone's mind here.

If you are a football official, you are quite ignorant to be posting such idiocy on an officiating board.

Then again, Madden and Michaels thought it was a bad call, so it must've been.

Do we need to send you a keyboard with a functioning "shift" key?

I have to disagree with you. I looked at this play several times on TiVo and it was clear that the push put the defender back on his heals. Not only did the receiver extend his arms, he did so with the officials standing not 5 feet away from the play. I will admit at first that when I first saw the play I did not agree with it. After reviewing it several times this was a good call. Sorry, we are just going to have to disagree on this one.

Peace

How were they getting the shaft? Football officials have less influence on a game than what takes place from Basketball officials. It was not the officials that made the Seahawks fall for the Randal-El pass play. It was not the official's fault that their FG kicker could only make one FG. I agree that some calls did not go the Seahawks way, but it was not the officials that did not make plays at the right time.

Peace

I must also state that there was only 10 fouls called the entire game.

Seattle had 7-70 yards.

Pittsburgh had 3-20 yards.

I guess it was the official's fault that Seattle gave up a Super Bowl record run by Pittsburgh on the second play of the second half. :rolleyes:

Peace

I just think that there were some very close, controversial calls that went Pittsburgh's way. Ben's TD run....you saw the official raise his hand to spot the ball...then decide to call it a TD. He wasn't even sure. Had he called it down (like he started to), it would have not been overruled by the replay, just as the TD was not overruled. The hold as Seattle made a pass to the 2 yd line with a chance to go ahead was a call that I do not believe the referee makes most of the time. The hold (if you can call it that) was not the reason the Seahawks completed the pass and should have been a no-call. Seattle's penalties were more costly because they were momentum-killers. It's not how many penalties, it was the timing of the penalties. I just don't think the game was called very well and I think Seattle was on the short end of the calls all night...not purposely...but on the short end nonetheless. I'm not the only referee who feels this way I'm sure. It is just that most of us will not criticize another official. I usually don't but this is the biggest game out there and I think Seattle has a legit complaint about the way the game was called.

Let me say this, I hated the illegal block call against Hassleback. I thought that was the worst call of the game. Also remember that a call was overturned that originally was ruled a fumble in the favor of Pittsburgh. What did Seattle do on that drive? There was a play that was ruled an incomplete pass that was thrown to Jeramay Stevens that you could make a case that was a fumble (it was really close). Seattle got a chance to keep the ball and what did they do on that drive? I have no problem to be critical of officials for the right reasons, but do not tell me just because some calls did not go the way of one team it cost them the game. If Jeramay Stevens could catch a cold, they might have been in a better position to win the game. It also did not help when Hassleback threw a big interception deep in Pittsburg territory.

BTW, I will disclose that I had a cousin that played and started in the game for Seattle.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Feb 6th, 2006 at 07:38 AM]

What makes me sick is the only plays that people are being critical of are those that made the replays by Madden. J. Rutledge pointed out a few of those that could have certainly gone against the Seahawks. On the Int return by the Seahawks Ben was clearly pushed in the back to the ground. No call was made on that and Seattle went on to score a TD. Perhaps if a flag was thrown that would have taken away the momentum of Seattle and kept them from scoring. It's quite possible that without those missed calls that the score could have easily been 21 to 0. So everyone says that Ben didn't break the plane. I thought he was in but just to make it even you can have those seven points. Score now 21-7. And just to be generous the no-call on a hold that just so happened to allow the Seahawks to get into field goal position gave them 3 more points they shouldn't have got. Final score 21-10. By my calculations Seattle benefited a great deal more than Pittsburgh on some judgment calls.

no BIB
 

When I first saw the int return, I thought Ben was blocked in the back as well...on the replay it clearly shows the blocker had a hand on Ben's shoulder and in his ribs...The philosophies I have heard are that the contact needs to be squarley in the back...so I think no call...and an overall good job by the crew

REPLY: I'll add my own two cents. I thought the OPI was a good (maybe "great") call. What made it so good was the timing. As JRutledge pointed out, the extended arm froze the defender in his tracks. Then the ball arrived about a half-second later. It wasn't so much a <u>push</u>-off as it was a <u>hold</u>-off. So it didn't have the blatant look of a push to create separation, but it created that separation nonetheless. Did the receiver gain an advantage by his actions? Not that much. But did the hold-off put the defender at a disadvantage? Most certainly. That's why there was a flag. If the ball had arrived a few seconds later after the arm was down and the defender was back in a position to be able to make a play on the ball, you most likely wouldn't have seen a flag. And if the arm hadn't kept the defender from moving toward the receiver, you probably also wouldn't have seen the flag.

EXCELLENT explanation, Bob!

Agree with Bob.

It was push (or nudge) and catch bang-bang. Seemed to me (and the BJ couldn't have asked for better position) that the push led directly to the necessary space. I'd have flagged it. Hopefully I'd have gotten the actual flag out instead of the beanbag first, but I consider myself fortunate if I go to blow the whistle and it's actually in my mouth first, so I'm not one to talk. :)

Excellent explanation - thanks. But a question...two steps prior to Jackson turning and "holding off", the defender put both hands on Jackson - one on shoulder pad, one on back - and shoved Jackson and Jackson was thrown off stride...if you let that illegal contact go, why would you flag what Jackson did?

On the offensive pass interference, the same exact play and call was made in superbowl 38. Carolina had just tied the game with about a minute left, but their kicker kicked the ball OOB. Patriots took over on the 40.

What many people forget is that early in that drive, Troy Brown was called for OPI. Same exact play -- very modest push in the chest that put the defender on his heels for a split second and allowed the catch.

The difference of course was that on the next play or maybe one play later, Brown made an impossible grab for a 15 yard gain, the Patriots made a first down, overcame the 1st and 20, and won the game. So nobody talks about it. Same play, both were the correct call, and the only difference is that Seattle had trouble overcoming their own mistakes in this game.

That said, I thought the holding call was marginal and the illegal block call was positively horrible. Otherwise, I thought the crew did a decent job of letting the players decide the game. Seattle made more mistakes, was bad on special teams, had a coach that looked not ready for prime time, and Pittsburgh made more big plays.

One thing I think is kind of funny about people criticizing the officiating is that every assumes that if the Roth TD was overturned on replay, that one of the best red zone teams in the league wouldn't have found a way to get one inch on 4th and goal to score the touchdown anyway. Yet the very same people all assume that but for the the holding call, Seattle would have scored a touchdown from the 3 yard line.

You see what you want to see, I guess. Seattle made too many mistakes to win a big game against a good opponent, and that's not the officials' fault.

Guys, let's face it. Our brethren in stripes completely botched this game. If they had been doing their jobs, the Seattle safety wouldn't have bit on the run-left that turned into an option pass TD for Pittsburgh. If they had been doing their jobs, they could have helped Seattle manage the clock better at the ends of BOTH halves. If they had been doing their jobs, Hasselbeck wouldn't have thrown that crucial interception down by 11 midway through the 3rd quarter as they were about to score. If they had been doing their jobs, Fast Willie Parker wouldn't have run through, and then around, the entire Seattle defense for a record-breaking run.

Face it - they blew this game.

(The above written by someone who was SOLIDLY rooting for the Seahawks)

I love sarcasm :) I think?!?

If you have watched much media coverage today it seemed to be bashing the officials pretty bad, especially on Cold Pizza. As an Umpire I thought the controversial hold call was a good-great call. O lineman got beat, reached out and with the right hand from behind got a handful of jersey, enough to knock him down enough to not sack number 8. The one replay they keep showing supposedly shows a "phantom foul" but apparently they are not looking where I'm looking.

And as for the OPI, great call. Simply put receiver puts hands on defender, extends arms enough to displace defender, goes opposite way for the catch, and 5 feet from BJ, easy call. As for the possible illegal contact I think no call was correct, I heard a sportscaster make a good point (it does happen occasionaly) that the reciever was in scramble mode at that point and was not really running his route therefore the pattycake hands were alright as no advantage occured until there was clear seperation toward the ball.

And I love that people are calling these "ticky tak" fouls. What the Heck is a ticky tak foul anyway, an infraction that by the letter of the rule is illegal, but not "big" enough!?! You do something that is not legal by rule + you gain an advantage = infraction. Just because the defender isn't Vlade Divac'd 12 feet the other way doesn't mean you don't call it.

As for the block below the waist...bad call. They're human!

The officials blew it, plain and simple. It happens sometimes. Most of the time it won't affect the outcome of the game, but there were so many bad calls in this game against one team, it's undeniable that it impacted the outcome of the game. Yes, Seattle made mistakes, but the officals made enough too, at critical times, that it impacted the flow and scoring of the game.

It happens. We don't all have to defend all officials all the time. Everyone has bad days.

The real question is what will happen in the future to correct these errors. Off-field officials looking at the replays. More camera angles from above the field. More officials on the field. Different training. Something else?

I must note there were two bad holding calls made against Seattle. No holding at all....the other calls I agree were there...

I don't think the officiating was very good, not for the NFL. I don't think that cost them the game. Seattle lost the game and it wasn't the officials fault but I do think the officiating was sub-par for and NFL crew.

Bob,
my one cent, I agree with what you are saying but I would like to see that called every week. Many WRs have made a living doing that and never being called for it(Moss, Irvin)....

Well I Guess That Being a Football Fan who isn't for either team, and someone who is well versed in the game of football and Not a Blind Zebra Makes The Facts inadmissable. Its Better for The Officials to sit up on their pedestal like nothing happened.

Think about this instead of the Talk being the Wonderful Story of Pittsburgs Championship, We're talking about wether or not the officials had influence in the game.

For you to discount my opinions, and thats what the are, on the basis of my official or nonofficial status is Pompas and what is wrong with Sports today.

If you delete this than thats your rite, but it is also my rite to voice them.

A knowledgable football fan.

Dave Laliberte
Fort Pierce, Florida

rulesmaven,
I agree with you that Seattle lost the game but I was disappointed with the overall performance of the crew.....

While in college, it looks like you took TV instead of grammar.

Hey Dave Laliberte from Fort Pierce, Florida, do the letters FO mean anything to you? Nobody here cares what you think. You're just another fanboy who's here just trying to irritate others.

Hey, a lot of the folks from the Bball board are over here, which is great to see.

Bob, thanks for your explanation - I have to admit, the first few times I thought the call was "ticky-tack" at best. I tried to compare it to basketball - and would I have let a post player do the same thing - and after thinking, my answer was "no". So a gutsy call by that official, I have to conclude.

Rocky - let's compare it again to hoops. If a player was cutting to the key to post up, and was grabbed a bit by the defender, do we blow it right away, or wait for the advantage? I think in the Super Bowl case, the official likely saw that the receiver was able to continue his route, so thought no advantage. But when the push-off came, the advantage was basically a TD - thus the flag.

That's how I'm thinking it out, anyway.

Hey guys, occasional reader, rare poster (at least on the football side). I'd read some bickering about the game and thought I'd come to the experts. ;)
What I've noticed here is that the ones b!tching aren't giving any real rationale, but the ones "defending" the crew have plenty of reason on their side; and they're employing it well.
Of course it just reinforces my opinion anyway; that the crew did an overall good job. My only real question is about that illegal block call on the Seattle int. Was that a call that is justified by the rules but was poor judgment, or was it a misapplication of a rule? Or, conversely, was it the right call?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete in AZ
That push off penalty was crap. It never gets called all season and then you ticky tack it here.

That Hasselback fumble call just proves how bad this crew was. The ground doesn't cause fumbles and it should never have needed to be reviewed and reversed.

When did Big Ben cross the goal line. The ball only touched the paint when he was flat on his belly with three guys on top of him.

Horrible officiating and the world got to see it all. [
/QUOTE]

1..The contact by the reveiver prevented the DB from changing direction.

2..Hasselback was TOUCHED on his way down.

3..If you could see carefully, the nose of the ball broke the plane BEFORE Ben was down.

4..And HOW MUCH did YOU LOSE on the game?

Bob

Most posters are ignorant fans who have been listening to ignorant announcers and/or beyond-ignorant Sports radio talk hosts.

I found the first flag of the game bizarre---a hold on an OL on a sack for a 15 yd loss. It was declined but who throws that? Ichalked it up to the U's adreneline.

The OPI was a great call and was called immediately. BJ just couldn't find his flag.

The Pitt TD call looked ugly with the initial DB signal but on replay, he was clearly in before he hit the ground.

All in all it was a ugly game between 2 mediocre teams. Holmgren should be embarrassed by his butchering of the end of each half. It reminded me why I don't watch NFL games on a regular basis.

It also proved that the NFL is the best officiated of the pro leagues.

Snaqwells,
it's kind of like you posted if you put it in the right light it is always the right call. In my opinion, it was bad judgement to make that call. It was the QB! He was trying to make a tackle and him a blocker blow the waist. By rule it is a penalty, but applied to this case wrong.

Dave, you are way out of line and are forgetting one thing, this is a form for football officials. Most of the persons that post on this form have years and years of on the field experience, playing and officiating, at both the high school and college level. We learn from observing, critiquing and discussing game situations and other official’s performances. We might not agree with what others say, but we respect their opinions as fellow officials.
You coming on to this form and making remarks like “Blind Zebras” and “Its Better for The Officials to sit up on their pedestal like nothing happened” or calling us Pompous, shows that you have no respect for us officials.
It’s easy to sit up in the stands or in front of a TV and criticize. It’s harder to get off you backside and do something. If you are as knowledgeable and well versed in the game of football, as you say that you are, why don’t you take a class get your permit and join us on the field as an official? We are always looking for good people to lend a hand. Maybe we will see you working a AAC game in four years and then SB 45.:-)
BTW When you post on a form owned by someone you are a guest on that form. The only rites that you have are the ones given to you by the owner.
Dale Smith

[Edited by Dale Smith on Feb 6th, 2006 at 11:09 PM]

I would submit that it is not "undeniable" since the majority of real officials who have seen these calls seem to disagree that they were mistakes.

The only "bad" call in my book was the blocking below the waist penalty on Hasselbeck when trying to make a tackle. And I never saw a replay showing me whether or not he actually contacted the blocker - this MAY have actually been a technically correct call. The one replay I did see leads me to doubt this, but lacking multiple replays, it's possible.

One other thing. I think that only 1 of the calls in the Bowl were incorrect calls - and it may have benefitted Seattle (the Stephens non-catch/fumble). But Seattle needs to quit complaining. In my opinion (and in the opinions of many non-officials), Pittsburgh dealt with a FAR more blatant run of bad calls against them in the Indi game... and managed to overcome them.

In this play, had he it the player next to the runner it would have been a good call. I believe he thought the other player got hit below the waist and not the runner. Sometimes officials see things that didn't actually happen. It's much like basketball. How many times do we see a foul call when there wasn't any contact at all?

That depends on the official? Fortunately in basketball we are a lot closer, but I see your point. ;)

Peace

Ben said on TV last night that the ball was not in.

The officials blew it, plain and simple

---------------------------

Spoken like a truly ignorant fan who has never officiated one second of his life.

mcrowder,
I have the tape. He did block below the waist. So, technically it was the correct call.

And Ben was looking down the plane of the goal line, wasn't he? How in the world does he know he is carrying the ball, not looking at where it is. Just another comment to stoke the fire!

This just shows that the players and coaches are rats. Even when a decision goes their way, they still find a way to bad mouth the officials working the game.

Someone ought to tell Ben he only completed 9 passes in the game and isn't exactly the next Tom Brady. Maybe the next Trent Dilfer....

First, Steeler fan, who thinks he knows the rules.

My only comment is to clarrify. Ben didn't say he didn't get in. He said that he told coach he didn't think he got in. So he wasn't ratting anyone out.

The discussion has been fascinating.

About the knock on Ben, his Superbowl was subpar. But he made big throw when he had to. He had some important runs. And he may have had the most important block in the game on the Randel-el pass.