Kicking game questions

[ljudge]

Well boys I'm on the mend (surgery went well for those of you who read my earlier post). I'm studying rule 6 of the NCAA guide and would like for some NCAA answers.

Scrimmage kick rules. AR 6-3-1-V

Team A's punt from behind its own goal line crosses the NZ into the field of play. It then strikes a Team B player and rebounds behind Team A's goal line, where Team A recovers the ball and advances to the one-yard line.

Ruling: Safety - Ball dead where recovered.

I'm on board with that ruling knowing in NCAA that once a ball is recovered by K behind the NZ he can't advance it if it has first gone behind the NZ and came back. In Fed the ball would remain live and K could advance (and would have a 1st down whether or not he made the LTG).

My question:

What if the ball had struck the ground first and team R provided a new force? The question doesn't mention whether the ball struck the team B player in flight. Does it matter?

In Fed if it strikes the team B player in flight and team K recovers and the ball happens to become dead in the EZ it's definitely a safety. If it hits the ground first it's a first down for K if he recovers in his own EZ and it becomes dead there. It appears it doesn't matter for NCAA.

Can anyone help me clear up the confusion I'm having with this? And, if I made any incorrect Fed statements please say so.

Thanks,
LJ

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by ljudge
Well boys I'm on the mend (surgery went well for those of you who read my earlier post).

Glad to hear it!

What if the ball had struck the ground first and team R provided a new force? The question doesn't mention whether the ball struck the team B player in flight. Does it matter?

... (In Fed,) If it hits the ground first it's a first down for K if he recovers in his own EZ and it becomes dead there. It appears it doesn't matter for NCAA.

... And, if I made any incorrect Fed statements please say so.

I'm not sure if I'm correcting or merely clarifying what you wrote, but for NFHS, here's my take on this situation.

If you judge that R provided a new force with the muff (obviously, then, it hit the ground first), then when K recovers behind their own goal line and it becomes dead there, it's not just a first down - it's a touchback.

If you judge that R did not provide a new force (even though the kick hit the ground first), then if K recovers and gets the ball out of the EZ, it will be a new series for them. In the EZ, though, it's still going to be a safety.

[ljudge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Roamin' Umpire

I'm not sure if I'm correcting or merely clarifying what you wrote, but for NFHS, here's my take on this situation.

If you judge that R provided a new force with the muff (obviously, then, it hit the ground first), then when K recovers behind their own goal line and it becomes dead there, it's not just a first down - it's a touchback.

This was the situation I was trying to articulate. Still have some Percocet in my system I guess. In NCAA ball I want to know that even if K recovers a kick that has crossed the NZ is it still considered a safety EVEN WHEN the receiving team provides a new force of the ball and K recovers behind his own goal line?

In Fed ball K can advance a ball even if it was touched beyond the NZ. In NCAA ball it appears from what I'm reading is it becomes dead immediately. I would think this would be a touchback situation but it's not clear from the AR's that are available.

[Theisey]

NCAA: it's called impetus not force.
And yes, this is still a safety. Team-A cannot advance a scrimmage kick that has been deemed to have crossed the NZ no matter where they recover it no matter who touched it last.

Maybe rule 8-7-2 may help out.