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Jaysef Thu Jan 19, 2006 08:51am

I know that in H.S. everything happening between players that start in the blocking zone, until the ball leaves the blocking zone is pretty much legal...will someone help me with the college and pro calls on below -the- waist blocking?
It seems when I'm watching college games, I see running backs blocking rushing defenders, by dropping down and taking out their legs. Same in pros. Correct me if I'm wrong but this IS an illegal block in High School, right?

Dormant Ump

RefNVa Thu Jan 19, 2006 08:57am

If they're oughta the box, yes, it's illegal.

Bob M. Thu Jan 19, 2006 09:38am

REPLY: Actually, for Federation (most high schools)it has a little to do with "the box." It has more to do with position. In Federation, only blocks lineman against lineman are allowed to be below the waist. And those blocks must occur in the box and before the ball has left the box.

For NCAA, it's a littl more complicated. Blocking below the waist is permitted <u>except</u>:
1. Offensive linemen at the snap positioned more than seven yards from the middle lineman of the offensive formation are prohibited from blocking below the waist toward the original position of the ball in or behind the neutral zone and within 10 yards beyond the neutral zone.
2. Backs at the snap positioned with the frame of their body completely outside the frame of the body of the normal tackle (second player from the snapper) position in either direction toward a sideline, or in motion at the snap, are prohibited from blocking below the waist toward the original position of the ball in or behind the neutral zone and within 10 yards beyond the neutral zone.
3. During a scrimmage down, defensive players are prohibited from blocking an eligible Team A receiver below the waist beyond the neutral zone unless attempting to get at the ball or runner. A Team A receiver remains eligible until a legal forward pass is no longer possible by rule.
4. During a down in which there is a free kick or scrimmage kick from a scrimmage kick formation, all players are prohibited from blocking below the waist, except against the runner.
5. After any change of team possession, all players are prohibited from blocking below the waist, except against the runner.
6. A Team A player behind the neutral zone and in position to receive a backward pass shall not be blocked below the waist or contacted by way of a personal foul.

RefNVa Thu Jan 19, 2006 01:09pm

You say it has little to do with the "box", then you go on to say "all blocks must occur in the box", hmm, ok.

Kirby Thu Jan 19, 2006 02:17pm

You say it has little to do with the "box", then you go on to say "all blocks must occur in the box", hmm, ok.

Bob said that referring to position. For example, under NF rules, if a RB moves up to the LOS and blocks an oncoming defender or a LB cuts any offensive player while the ball is in the zone (and the block occurs in the zone), this is a foul everytime and must be called. The HS athletes, for the most part, are not advanced enough to take on these blocks without being subject to high injury risks and I believe that is why the BBW rule exists under the NF code.

RefNVa Thu Jan 19, 2006 02:23pm

It has EVERYTHING to do with the box! If they're in the box at the snap then they can BBW if they aren't they can't. Seems pretty simple to me but hey I'm a simple guy!!!

Kirby Thu Jan 19, 2006 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RefNVa
It has EVERYTHING to do with the box! If they're in the box at the snap then they can BBW if they aren't they can't. Seems pretty simple to me but hey I'm a simple guy!!!
Not really that simple.

For example, A88 goes in motion, and at the snap is off the LOS but in the free-blocking zone, then blocks an on-coming defender, who was in the zone at the snap, below the waist while the ball is still in the zone.

Based on your statement above, you would not throw the flag in this situation. Please check Rule 2-17-2. Only players who line up on the LOS and in the free blocking zone are permitted to and may be involved in a block below the waist. In addition, these players may only block below the waist if the ball has not left the zone.

tpaul Thu Jan 19, 2006 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RefNVa
It has EVERYTHING to do with the box! If they're in the box at the snap then they can BBW if they aren't they can't. Seems pretty simple to me but hey I'm a simple guy!!!
No becvause just being in the box isn't enough. It's only OL vs DL..

RefNVa Thu Jan 19, 2006 07:11pm

Please cite the NF rule that says only DL/OL may block BTW in the FBZ.

tpaul Thu Jan 19, 2006 07:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RefNVa
Please cite the NF rule that says only DL/OL may block BTW in the FBZ.
2-17-2
ART. 2 . . . Blocking below the waist is permitted in the free-blocking zone when the following conditions are met:

a. All players involved in the blocking are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap.
b. The contact is in the zone.

RefNVa Thu Jan 19, 2006 07:26pm

I do not see OL/DL referred to?

tpaul Thu Jan 19, 2006 08:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RefNVa
I do not see OL/DL referred to?
Now I see why nobody answers your replies...

RefNVa Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:34pm

Very mature response, go suck your thumb jr.!

PAUMP Fri Jan 20, 2006 07:48am

The free blocking zone is a box 3yards by 4yards. Which in most formations covers the center, guards and tackles. Thus the OL/DL restriction they are talking about. With the restrictins of being on the line at the snap and in the box while the free blocking zone still exists, by rule and formation no back or wide out can block below the waist.

Jaysef Fri Jan 20, 2006 09:43am

Did not want to incite riot
 
Thank you Bob M. I was basically looking for differences in NF and College. You enlightened me on that.

J

Bob M. Fri Jan 20, 2006 03:07pm

Re: Did not want to incite riot
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jaysef
Thank you Bob M. I was basically looking for differences in NF and College. You enlightened me on that.

J

REPLY: Glad I enlightened someone. I thought I'd started World War III

RefNVa Fri Jan 20, 2006 03:10pm

Jsef, the only points I tryied to make were: the box is very important in determing legal BBW and that not only are OL/DL allowed to BBW but also any others that are within the FBZ @ the snap and before the ball leaves. Sorry for the diversion! :"D

Bob M. Fri Jan 20, 2006 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RefNVa
...and that not only are OL/DL allowed to BBW but also any others that are within the FBZ @ the snap and before the ball leaves. :"D
REPLY: RefNVa...that's just not correct. Take a look at these plays. Here's why I said that the 'box' is probably of secondary importance to the positions of the opponents:

1. Wing back is positioned directly behind the tackle (he's in the box) and charges out to block the DE below the waist. <b>RULING:</b> Illegal block below the waist. A back can <u>never</u> block legally below the waist in or out of the FBZ.

2. LB coming on a blitz after the snap from three yards in his own defensive backfield. Offensive guard (in the box) sees this and cuts him with a block below the waist at A's line of scrimmage. <b>RULING:</b> Illegal block below the waist. Since the LB was not on the line of scrimmage at the snap, this block is illegal -- even though it took place in the FBZ, and even though the blocker was on the line at the snap.

3. On an end-around, while the ball is still in the FBZ, wing back blocks a pursuing lineman (also in the box) below the waist. <b>RULING:</b> Illegal block below the waist. Just like #1, a back can <u>never</u> block legally below the waist in or out of the FBZ.

[Edited by Bob M. on Jan 20th, 2006 at 04:02 PM]

Jaysef Fri Jan 20, 2006 03:25pm

No harm. Differences of opinion can more than likely bring up different ways of thinking about the situation for both sides. I just wanted an explanation as to why I've seen several times in college and pro, a running back freely wiping out a blitzing defender twice his size by going low.

J

Bob M. Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:10pm

REPLY: As a follow-up, here's a case play right from the NFHS website. I hope this helps resolve the question definitively:

*2.17.2 SITUATION D, Page 14: Linebacker B7 is in the free-blocking zone, but off the line of scrimmage. B7 blocks A8 below the waist. RULING: Illegal block. In order for a block below the waist to be legal, <b>both the blocker and the person being blocked must be on the line of scrimmage</b> at the snap and in the free-blocking zone.

tpaul Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUMP
The free blocking zone is a box 3yards by 4yards. Which in most formations covers the center, guards and tackles. Thus the OL/DL restriction they are talking about. With the restrictins of being on the line at the snap and in the box while the free blocking zone still exists, by rule and formation no back or wide out can block below the waist.
thank you some much. What about a TE? I had a coach saying, "if my guys line-up real tight and the TE is really close to the tackle, then he is in the box too."

tpaul Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaysef
No harm. Differences of opinion can more than likely bring up different ways of thinking about the situation for both sides. I just wanted an explanation as to why I've seen several times in college and pro, a running back freely wiping out a blitzing defender twice his size by going low.

J

Jaysef,
I was just trying to make it simpler to understand for the sake of making it easier and the guy has to bust my b@lls.


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