We had this happen the other night and I think I got it right as the R. A is at the line. QB says set and everyone except A2 goes from a two point stance to a three point stance. About a second after they shift and a half a second before the ball is snapped A2 goes down to his three point stance and his hand hits the ground right about the time the ball is snapped. I throw the flag and call an illegal shift. I'm about half convinced this is right. Is this the right call?

You got it right.

Illegal motion in NCAA rules. Shift requires 2 or more to move.

If all 11 do not come set for 1 sec it is illegal shift.

If all 11 do not stop for 1 sec it is illegal shift.

All 11 did stop for the second the way I read his post. After that second, the RB started moving to a new position and is still moving when the ball is snapped. And now that I re-read the post...unless he was moving forward, his movement is not even illegal motion.

We had a similar situation... During conference with visiting coach for team B he gives us the "we have had this happen to us this year..." Anyway... Team A breaks the huddle and heads to the LOS. The linemen and backs are all set. Before the QB goes under center, he has his WR go in motion (between the QB and Center) once the WR passes him, he steps under center and has the ball snapped while the WR is still in motion. We flag it for illegal shift. Needless to say in the conference with coach B we told him that this was in fact a penatly so we were basically forced to call it all night!!! Coach B got us. We ended up calling the illegal shift 11 times that night.

So you're saying it was nothing? I'm not arguing, just asking.

Assuming they were all stopped for the second and then the RB started moving into a different stance with ball being snapped while he is putting that hand down, I have nothing.

I was going to post exactly what Mike concluded with (NCAA), as I didn't see a foul if the player is in the backfield. HOWEVER, if he's on the line, isn't that false start, Mike?

Sounds like you got it right.

On the original play I have nothing- sounds legal.

7-2-7
Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent's goal line.

Was his movement toward the opponent's goal line?

Sounds like it. If he's facing the goal line and he goes from a 2 point stance to a 3 point stance, I have to believe he's moving forward.

Illegal motion.

If he is on the line then it is clearly illegal motion as a lineman cannot be in motion at the snap. Not a false start though.

If a back, this guy's motion is legal. If a lineman, he can move late like this, as long as he is set for an additional second before the snap - so as described, illegal.

Is that a Fed requirement, a single lineman moving has to be set for a full second before the snap? That is not true in NCAA.

Are you saying a lineman doesn't have to be set for a full second before the snap? Or are you saying a single lineman can't be moving by himself at any time prior to the snap? For either - what's your rule reference?

What I am saying is that when all the players come to the line and set up they have "shifted". Following a shift everyone has to be stopped for 1 full second before the ball is snapped. Assuming the lineman in question did come to a full stop along with everyone else (but he has not yet put a hand on or near the ground), if he then moves prior to the snap, he must simply NOT be moving at the snap. The 1 second pause only applies to shifts. If only 1 player is moving, there is no shift, hence no requirement for another 1 second pause.

This is not true for NF. The definition for a shift as noted in Rule 2-37 states a shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap. Going from a two point or hands-on-knees position to a three point position constitutes a shift. Check Case Book play 2.37 on page 17.

golf: TMk doesn't work fed and probably has never seen a fed casebook! NCAA: shift = minimum of 2 players and it requires a "change of position." Moving up or down, even in cadence, isn't a shift.

Maybe I am missing what you are saying but I believe players moving up or down, i.e. into a final set position DOES equate to a shift. If memory serves, there is even an AR saying as much. (NCAA)

You are correct. I was misinformed.