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-   -   Rule changes needed: Suggestions? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/22908-rule-changes-needed-suggestions.html)

Daryl H. Long Fri Oct 28, 2005 02:53pm

It is that time of year again when we can reflect on all that has happened over the last few months.

What new rules do you think the NF should implement?

tpaul Fri Oct 28, 2005 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long
It is that time of year again when we can reflect on all that has happened over the last few months.

What new rules do you think the NF should implement?


they should add the uncatchable pass w?PI...

ThickSkin Fri Oct 28, 2005 03:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Quote:

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long
It is that time of year again when we can reflect on all that has happened over the last few months.

What new rules do you think the NF should implement?


they should add the uncatchable pass w?PI...

Yes! I thought the holding POE was good this year. On a pass play to the opposite side of the field, you could still have holding on your side by the DB on the WR.

Zebra29 Fri Oct 28, 2005 07:16pm

1)Uncatchable passes. Model rule after NCAA. This year's change was a start, let's get it RIGHT. I abhore throwing a flag when a DB contacts a receiver and the ball is 8 feet over the kid's head.

2)I'd change NFHS Int.Grounding rule to the NCAA rule to help protect young QBs (allow them to throw it away without getting killed)

3)POE on jewelry - especially the "Livestrong" bracelets that all of these kids think they can wear.


Those are the first 3 that come to my mind.

shave-tail Fri Oct 28, 2005 08:01pm

I don't know if there needs to be any rules changes but we sure need a new "rules book". By the time it takes to find the information needed know the rule, understand it correctly, go to the case book to make sure you understand it, track it down in the penalty enforcement then find the signal, you could memorize the IRS tax codes. I would like to see a rules book that has the heading "Holding" or any other commonly used rule or term. You could find everything you need to know under that heading without getting bounced around even if it means duplication of a few things. "Would you like a little WHINE with that cheese?" I feel better.

Gman34 Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by shave-tail
I don't know if there needs to be any rules changes but we sure need a new "rules book". By the time it takes to find the information needed know the rule, understand it correctly, go to the case book to make sure you understand it, track it down in the penalty enforcement then find the signal, you could memorize the IRS tax codes.
Why don't you just do like Jim Evans and produce a rules index. That way you could look up a word in the index and find the pages of reference in the rules book. I'd buy several.

Forksref Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:07pm

The collection of illegal passes has a penalty that is too stiff. I'd go previous spot with LOD or spot foul with replay of down.

Also, Shave is right with the rule book. It could be made much more user-friendly.

yankeesfan Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:14pm

a penalty on a touchdown can be taken either on the try or the kickoff. what is a 1 1/2 yard penalty good for anyway, most of the time it means nothing.

tpaul Sat Oct 29, 2005 09:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by Zebra29
1)Uncatchable passes. Model rule after NCAA. This year's change was a start, let's get it RIGHT. I abhore throwing a flag when a DB contacts a receiver and the ball is 8 feet over the kid's head.

2)I'd change NFHS Int.Grounding rule to the NCAA rule to help protect young QBs (allow them to throw it away without getting killed)

3)POE on jewelry - especially the "Livestrong" bracelets that all of these kids think they can wear.


Those are the first 3 that come to my mind.

We already have rules against "Livestrong" bracelets

tpaul Sat Oct 29, 2005 09:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by shave-tail
I don't know if there needs to be any rules changes but we sure need a new "rules book". By the time it takes to find the information needed know the rule, understand it correctly, go to the case book to make sure you understand it, track it down in the penalty enforcement then find the signal, you could memorize the IRS tax codes. I would like to see a rules book that has the heading "Holding" or any other commonly used rule or term. You could find everything you need to know under that heading without getting bounced around even if it means duplication of a few things. "Would you like a little WHINE with that cheese?" I feel better.
I do agree the casebook and rulebook need to have all those correctionsstraightened out!

tpaul Sat Oct 29, 2005 09:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeesfan
a penalty on a touchdown can be taken either on the try or the kickoff. what is a 1 1/2 yard penalty good for anyway, most of the time it means nothing.
I like that too. great idea...:)

jfurdell Sat Oct 29, 2005 09:41am

OPI = 15 yards and no loss of down

Rich Sat Oct 29, 2005 09:42am

I always have a laundry list, although I don't really care if any of these are put into place.

My favorite rule change this year was in the NFL -- a penalty on K during the kickoff (during loose ball play, by NFHS definition) can be tacked onto the end of the kick.

I would still like to see pass interference changed -- OPI, repeat the down. Remove illegal touching beyond the line as OPI, make it illegal touching. Make DPI a spot foul if <15 yards.

Apply scoring play penalties on either the try OR the kickoff -- give the team the choice.

Make all personal fouls automatic first downs.

BktBallRef Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by Gman34
Quote:

Originally posted by shave-tail
I don't know if there needs to be any rules changes but we sure need a new "rules book". By the time it takes to find the information needed know the rule, understand it correctly, go to the case book to make sure you understand it, track it down in the penalty enforcement then find the signal, you could memorize the IRS tax codes.
Why don't you just do like Jim Evans and produce a rules index. That way you could look up a word in the index and find the pages of reference in the rules book. I'd buy several.

No need, as it's already been done. Buy the ARS CD. It has a rule, case, and funny book with a search index.

Also, shave-tail must be a rook. Study, study, study and you'll soon know exactly where to go to find what you need.

shave-tail Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:20am

BktBallRef I hope you get more exercise than just jumping to conclutions. And no I'm not a rookie. However, I do have enough brain cells working to know when something doesn't work, and that's a little thing called our rules book. It's obvious by the posts that followed mine that something needs changed. Not every person who puts on the strips wants a full time job, they are people who wants to help out at the 5th-6th grade level, JR. high and JV. They should have access to materials that don't bounce the reader all over and are lost by the time they are done. I work with a WH with about 40 years experience and several state championship games, and when I see him flipping from the front to the back, I know that this book it not effective and some change is needed.

HLin NC Sat Oct 29, 2005 03:00pm

Revamp the Case Book
 
All those "corrections" issued this summer were a joke. They should have re-written the #$%^ thing.

After working a game where B jumped offsides three straight times on the try, I'm almost of the belief that we should not make that a dead ball foul. It can penalize the offense/K by taking a made point off the board . Subsequent play may lead to muffed hold/bad snap/missed kick.

Reddings book is formatted a whole lot better that the NF.

Texas Aggie Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:06pm

Sounds like a lot of the suggested changes are already in the NCAA book, so why not just have your state adopt NCAA football rules with a few HS specific exceptions like Texas does? It will make things easier for officials all over the country that work both HS and college, and in my view, promote a more consistent game.

To me, Fed football rules (taken as a whole) aren't really necessary. The NCAA rules work fine for HS, and unlike some other sports, they aren't necessarily written for just college level athletes. In basketball, for example, state associations need to stick with Fed since NCAA has different rules for men and women, and Fed likely doesn't want that (and neither do most HS officials). Further, in basketball, it isn't unusual for teams to travel to other states to play tournaments and they need to expect consistentcy in the rules. In football, that doesn't happen with regularity. If there were NOBODY using NCAA rules for HS, that might prompt a "hold the phone; let's think about this" type attitude, but Texas has been using college rules since my Dad started officiating in the 1950's without problem.

Snake~eyes Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:11am

1. Change the rules to NCAA offsides. There is no advantage to making this a DBF. I have seen defensive encroachment occur on fieldgoals/extrapoints and because they continue the kick after the whistle which turn out being good. Also it sucks when the kicking team is offsides, we have to line up all over again.

2. Work on simultaneous USC/DB fouls. Not equitable how it is currently written - can result in awarding the offense by giving them a first down. Can also disadvantage either team if inside the 30 and the first penatly is marked off towards the endzone.

3. Uncatchable pass

4. Option of penalty on TD enforced on KO

I'll think of some more.

Thoughts?

Snake~eyes Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Sounds like a lot of the suggested changes are already in the NCAA book, so why not just have your state adopt NCAA football rules with a few HS specific exceptions like Texas does? It will make things easier for officials all over the country that work both HS and college, and in my view, promote a more consistent game.
I agree 100%. Several reasons, some of them might not be considered legitimate reasons by most. Makes it easier on officials who want to move up or who are working both levels. Also takes care of many rule misconceptions. Finally there are some major flaws in NFHS rules that could be fixed by switching to NCAA.

Bottom line is though - it won't happen.

ThickSkin Sun Oct 30, 2005 08:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Make all personal fouls automatic first downs.
Then maybe all the monkey crap that goes on after the play is over would come to an abrupt end!!!!

Gman34 Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ThickSkin
Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Make all personal fouls automatic first downs.
Then maybe all the monkey crap that goes on after the play is over would come to an abrupt end!!!!

.


I like this one as well. How do you penalize the O though?

I've never been a fan of being able to use the hands to block. It would be hard to go back to the 80s when you had to use the old forearm shiver but it would be nice.

tpaul Tue Nov 01, 2005 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Sounds like a lot of the suggested changes are already in the NCAA book, so why not just have your state adopt NCAA football rules with a few HS specific exceptions like Texas does? It will make things easier for officials all over the country that work both HS and college, and in my view, promote a more consistent game.

To me, Fed football rules (taken as a whole) aren't really necessary. The NCAA rules work fine for HS, and unlike some other sports, they aren't necessarily written for just college level athletes. In basketball, for example, state associations need to stick with Fed since NCAA has different rules for men and women, and Fed likely doesn't want that (and neither do most HS officials). Further, in basketball, it isn't unusual for teams to travel to other states to play tournaments and they need to expect consistentcy in the rules. In football, that doesn't happen with regularity. If there were NOBODY using NCAA rules for HS, that might prompt a "hold the phone; let's think about this" type attitude, but Texas has been using college rules since my Dad started officiating in the 1950's without problem.

I agree with you but the NFHS has become a big business and isn't going away anytime soon ;)


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