personal away from the ball

Originally posted by timharris
hello

I was working a game last saturday and had this situaton occur. The offense broke a play for 40 yards and as the running back was about to score there was a persoanl foul by the offense at the 30 yard line, as the white hat i counted the score and accessed the penalty on the next play. Is this the proper procedure for this situation, i seemed to have read this exact play in a casebook sometime ago.


thanks for the help

Key being when the foul occured. before or after the score...?

Originally posted by l3will

By "This is a live ball foul" do you mean the original play??
The personal foul occurred before A entered the end zone, so
why do you enforce the yardage on the try? This isn't an unsportsmanlike foul or a non-player foul.

How can you justify that by rule?

If you say live ball foul then no score. If the foul is after the TD...then on extra point. 8-2-2

ART. 2 . . . If during a touchdown-scoring play in which there is no change of possession, a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs, the scoring team may accept the results of the play and have a penalty enforced from the succeeding spot. If during a touchdown-scoring play in which there is a change of possession, a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs after the change of possession, the scoring team may accept the results of the play and have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot.

[l3will]

My question was directed at cad.

I agree that if it is a live ball foul, no touchdown and penalize from the spot of the personal foul. I had this play two weeks ago. The foul occurred just prior to A going in for the TD. I brought it back (no score) and penalized from the spot, this nullified a 50yd. touchdown run.

I didn't nullify A's touchdown, one of the A players did that when he committed the personal foul.

I'd like to know why cad thinks that he can treat this like a dead ball foul even though it occurred during the down.

[timharris]

hello


thanks for all the help guys, but i recently talked to a rules interperter from another association. the proper procedure for this type of play was explained by the state rules interperter at his clinic, on this type of play. if it has no bearing on the play what so ever this is ruled a personal foul and the player is ejected and the touchdown stands. penalty is marked off on the succeeding play this is the way that type of penalty is handled here in virginia.

Originally posted by l3will
My question was directed at cad.

I agree that if it is a live ball foul, no touchdown and penalize from the spot of the personal foul. I had this play two weeks ago. The foul occurred just prior to A going in for the TD. I brought it back (no score) and penalized from the spot, this nullified a 50yd. touchdown run.

I didn't nullify A's touchdown, one of the A players did that when he committed the personal foul.

I'd like to know why cad thinks that he can treat this like a dead ball foul even though it occurred during the down.

Sorry l3will,
You are right and we do agree. I must have missed cad's post...

Originally posted by timharris
hello


thanks for all the help guys, but i recently talked to a rules interperter from another association. the proper procedure for this type of play was explained by the state rules interperter at his clinic, on this type of play. if it has no bearing on the play what so ever this is ruled a personal foul and the player is ejected and the touchdown stands. penalty is marked off on the succeeding play this is the way that type of penalty is handled here in virginia.

Can you give me a rule reference on that?

[schwinn]

Originally posted by timharris
hello


thanks for all the help guys, but i recently talked to a rules interperter from another association. the proper procedure for this type of play was explained by the state rules interperter at his clinic, on this type of play. if it has no bearing on the play what so ever this is ruled a personal foul and the player is ejected and the touchdown stands. penalty is marked off on the succeeding play this is the way that type of penalty is handled here in virginia.

In my little ol' opinion that interpreter is a chicken. Enforce it the way it's supposed to be enforced as any live ball foul and that is by the all but one. I don't know why guys like this won't or don't have the guts to call it back and why they feel they can modify the rule book.

[timharris]

hello again

this is a state mandated rule any personal foul away from the ball and the flow of play is a cheap shot. every coach that has to attend these mandatory meetings so they understand the severity of making a cheap shot away from the ball. we are playing high school football, in the NFL you see this sort of thing all the time. this is not football and thats why it results in a ejection. this ruling came from the state, so you will not see this in the rule book. im quite sure each state is handling this penalty different.

[gtwbam]

Apparently the "State Interpreter"
is really a "State Re-Interpreter.
On this particular play; there is "No rule to reference" which would award a touchdown on this play. The play as decsribed is a live ball foul and should be assessed accordingly.

[golfnref]

Originally posted by timharris
hello again

this is a state mandated rule any personal foul away from the ball and the flow of play is a cheap shot. every coach that has to attend these mandatory meetings so they understand the severity of making a cheap shot away from the ball. we are playing high school football, in the NFL you see this sort of thing all the time. this is not football and thats why it results in a ejection. this ruling came from the state, so you will not see this in the rule book. im quite sure each state is handling this penalty different.

I officiate in Virginia and have never heard of this ruling. Can you tell me if this is coming from the VHSL office or a local rules interpreter?

Originally posted by timharris
hello again

this is a state mandated rule any personal foul away from the ball and the flow of play is a cheap shot. every coach that has to attend these mandatory meetings so they understand the severity of making a cheap shot away from the ball. we are playing high school football, in the NFL you see this sort of thing all the time. this is not football and thats why it results in a ejection. this ruling came from the state, so you will not see this in the rule book. im quite sure each state is handling this penalty different.

which state? VA?

[mcrowder]

Thank god our state interpreter confines himself to interpreting actual rules, instead of making them up like they seem to do in VA.

[cad]

Sorry, but I misread what had occured. There was personal foul behind the ball before it entered the endzone. I would penalize according to the "all but one principle" and penalize 15 yards from the 30 yardline. If this penalty occured after play was blown dead, there would be a penalty administered from B3. If this was a taunt by A or any other unsportsmanlike penalty, this would be live ball foul but administered from the succeeding spot.
I had a situation a few years back where a back was running for a TD and a teamate decided to taunt an opponent. Penalty flag was thrown and offended coach of B argued that TD should not count and we should penalize from the spot where foul occured. We ended up penalizing on the try, B3 abd 15 yards back. If I'm overlooking anything get back to me.

[nvfoa15]

I officiate in Virginia and I have not heard this interpretation!

Originally posted by cad
Sorry, but I misread what had occured. There was personal foul behind the ball before it entered the endzone. I would penalize according to the "all but one principle" and penalize 15 yards from the 30 yardline. If this penalty occured after play was blown dead, there would be a penalty administered from B3. If this was a taunt by A or any other unsportsmanlike penalty, this would be live ball foul but administered from the succeeding spot.
I had a situation a few years back where a back was running for a TD and a teamate decided to taunt an opponent. Penalty flag was thrown and offended coach of B argued that TD should not count and we should penalize from the spot where foul occured. We ended up penalizing on the try, B3 abd 15 yards back. If I'm overlooking anything get back to me.

No, that sounds correct...