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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 01:49pm
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Had this happen Friday night, I can't find a rule on point, but if feels like we may have missed it. Fair catch signaled for by R1. K2 blocked R2 about 5 yards from R1. R2, as a result of the block, stumbled into R1 just as R1 attempted to catch the punt. R1 muffs, and K recovers. We gave it to K.
I could not find a case on point in the case book or the rule book to support a KCI call. Thoughts please. 
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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 04:03pm
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Theisey, He said that K blocked R2 into R1 not R2 blocking K into R1. Do you still have K ball?
We had a similar play this Fri that eventually ended in an ejection. R1 is waiting for the punted ball. R2 is about 5 yards away and K is approaching. R1 retreats from the ball and K attempts to block R2 into the ball. FJ bags it as he sees it first touch K then R2 at which point K picks it up and takes off. BJ blows it dead and talks it over with FJ. When I get there FJ says I've got first touching by K. Coach is yelling that R touched it. My guys agree but not until after first touching. Now K players start repeating that R touched it. My umpire and FJ tell them that 1. They can't block R into the ball and 2. K first touched. K, now B, keeps mouthing in the huddle. I walk over and let them know that we explained the rule, they had their say, we heard them and that is all we'd listen to. As I walked away, B's best player, QB and SF, says "You Mfers can't see a GD thing" right behind our Umpire. He nails him and we end up with another UC on the guy. He'll get to think about it all next week.
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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 04:17pm
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Quote:
If, as you describe, K2 initiates the contact with R2, you have KCI, even without the FC signal. Awarded fair catch at the spot of the foul, or 15 yards from the previous spot and replay the down.
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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 07:03pm
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Quote:
My statement was "Contact is exempted for K when R blocks K into the receiver not the other way around". R blocking K into the R receiver is not a KCI foul. That was more of a rule statement of fact. The "not the other way around" part means K blocking R into R's own receiver is NOT a KCI foul against K. I think we are all on the same page here.
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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 07:11pm
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Quote:
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 06:34am
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According to the original post, the contact between K2 and R2 was about 5 yards from R1.
1) Lets assume R1 was in position to receive the kick, I think it is a stretch to say R2 was also in position 5 yards away. 2) We are all assuming that K2 initiated the contact, I think it is just as plausible that R2 was blocking K2 and was overpowered into R1. 3) R1 signaled for the fair catch not R2, R1 is the receiver afforded special protection. He is to be given an unobstructed opportunity to catch the kick. This contact was with his own player not K, therefore the K player did not obstruct his opportunity to make a fair catch. It will be K's ball, 1st and ten at the spot of recovery.
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 07:08am
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I'm not going to get into a what if this or what if that battle.
I did not assume K was first to block R2. Seemed clear to me that it's R's job to block K so their receiver can get some running room. The R players are 5 yards apart. That's far enough apart for me to assume that R2 had one thing in mind and that was to block K. Unfortunately for R2, K was possibly bigger and faster and cleaned his clock so to speak thus causing R2 to collide with R1. KCI on K? not in my opinion, nor do I see by any rule either.
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 08:35am
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I'd say KCI. If K contacts R while the ball is in flight it is KCI (unless K is warding off R who is blocking him). Doesn't seem to matter whether R is in position to catch the ball.
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 11:34am
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Please read orginal post. R 1 signals for fair catch.
R2 is 5 yards away. K blocks R2. This is KCI. no what ifs. Why would r2 block on Fair catch signal by R1, who is 5 yds away. The Roamin' Umpire Senior Member Registered: Aug 2004 Posts: 185 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by don't move Had this happen Friday night, I can't find a rule on point, but if feels like we may have missed it. Fair catch signaled for by R1. K2 blocked R2 about 5 yards from R1. R2, as a result of the block, stumbled into R1 just as R1 attempted to catch the punt. R1 muffs, and K recovers. We gave it to K. I could not find a case on point in the case book or the rule book to support a KCI call. Thoughts please. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NF 6-5-6 (emphasis mine): "While ... any scrimmage kick is in flight beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line, K shall not touch the ball or R, unless blocked into the ball or R or to ward off a blocker, nor obstruct R's path to the ball. This prohibition applies even when no fair-catch signal is given, ..." If, as you describe, K2 initiates the contact with R2, you have KCI, even without the FC signal. Awarded fair catch at the spot of the foul, or 15 yards from the previous spot and replay the down. [Edited by andy1033 on Oct 17th, 2005 at 01:11 PM]
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 11:40am
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 12:07pm
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This was my origional post. Thanks for all the input.
To clarify a few things: it was impossible to tell which player initiated contact, they appeared to have been 'locked up' for a while, and as keystoneref surmised, K1 just got the best of R2 and they just happened to be near R1. Actually I don't think either K1 or R2 had any idea where the ball was or that a fair catch signal had been made, they were just interested in each other. Does any of this make a difference?
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