KCI, R blocked into receiver

[Suudy]

Originally posted by andy1033
Please read orginal post. R 1 signals for fair catch.
R2 is 5 yards away. K blocks R2.

This is KCI. no what ifs.

Why would r2 block on Fair catch signal by R1, who is 5 yds away.

My point was R2 hits R1 causing the muff. Now if the initial contact by K was 5 yards aways, no KCI. Or even if it was 1 yard away and the contact was initiatated by R2, no KCI.

However, I'd think that if K initiatiated contact with R2, and R2 close enough to R1, you could have KCI. Regardless of the fact that R2 is not trying to catch the ball, if he is in a position to make the catch, KCI.

This is one of those situations you would have to see to be able to rule on. Saying R2 is 5 yards away, then stumbles into R1 after being hit doesn't give all the detail. Did R2 try to block K? Did K blast R2 in an attempt to get to R1? What happened?

[don't move]

I tried to clarrify in my last post near the bottom of page 1, it was impossible to tell which player initiated contact. The punt was fairly short and there were several groups op players in various stages of contact with opponents. No one 'blasted' anyone. The 2 players were in contact (locked up) for at least several seconds before the contact with the receiver occurred and they were moving in unison. When contact was broken, R2 ran into his own player. K1 was obviously trying to close in on R1 in case he muffed the punt or to make the tackle and R2 was trying to keep him from it, hoping to block for the return. As I said, I am sure neither one was aware of the fair catch signal. But the question still remains: EVEN IF K1 initiates contact with R2 and EVEN IF his block clearly knocked R2 into R1, does that constitute KCI? Rule 6-5-6 states K cannot interfere with the ball or R unless blocked into the ball or R, or to ward off a blocker, but that doesn't accurately describe our situation.
For now, I'm going to go with "K1 was 'warding off' blocker R2", and give the ball to K on the recovery, which is what I did Friday night.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by don't move
I tried to clarrify in my last post near the bottom of page 1, it was impossible to tell which player initiated contact. The punt was fairly short and there were several groups op players in various stages of contact with opponents. No one 'blasted' anyone. The 2 players were in contact (locked up) for at least several seconds before the contact with the receiver occurred and they were moving in unison. When contact was broken, R2 ran into his own player. K1 was obviously trying to close in on R1 in case he muffed the punt or to make the tackle and R2 was trying to keep him from it, hoping to block for the return. As I said, I am sure neither one was aware of the fair catch signal. But the question still remains: EVEN IF K1 initiates contact with R2 and EVEN IF his block clearly knocked R2 into R1, does that constitute KCI?

In a word, yes.

[Kirby]

I have a new spin on this play:

Rule 6-2-4
Any kicker may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the neutral zone or the expanded neutral zone, provided such kick has been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching. Such touching is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball...

In my opinion, the spirit behind 6-2-4 would apply to the play first posted in this thread. Even though the K player pushed an R player who was not going to catch the kick, K's pushing R2 into R1 caused the muff which could be argued is covered by rule 6-2-4.

My ruling: Ignore the touching by R and consider K's recovery as first touching. R's ball at the spot of K's recovery and no foul for KCI.