False start vs. motion at end of line

[OverAndBack]

Had a play yesterday - slot man jumped the count, I shut the play down for a false start. Partner (who's been doing this for 27 years, so I trust that's true) says if it's on (or in this case, right next to, since he was in the slot) the end of the line, it's a live ball foul and you drop the flag and let the play continue, as opposed to an interior lineman jumping.

If that's true, I didn't know that (probably my own fault), but it's another example of how you learn stuff every day.

[irefky]

you are right if he moved into the NZ. Remember, he would have had a chance to reset for 1 sec prior to the snap.

If he had not reset, ball is snapped, you have a motion call-throw flag, let the play go.

[buckrog64]

I agree, unless his action caused the defense to jump into the neutral zone. Then I'd call a false start. Everyone (meaning the fans) sees that wideout hiccup and go bananas when a call isn't made. Informed and cooler heads will prevail.

[JasonTX]

I assume you are speaking for NF, but for NCAA the player in your play is aloud to motion or move to another position, but he must do so in a way that does not simulate the start of the play. In your play that would be a false start.

[nvfoa15]

O and B,

I agree with your call,provided, in your judgement, that the action by the slot man simulated action at the snap. See rule 7-2-7a. I use this test: If the action by any A player makes me think that the ball was snapped then its a false start.

[OverAndBack]

That's what he did - just took off early from the snap.

The bad thing I did, too, was that it was on my partner's side, so I was overstepping my bounds (heard about that one, nicely, afterwards).

But "that's his call, sir" often doesn't satisfy the coach on your side.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Coincidentally enough, I've also been doing this for 27 years, and I couldn't disagree more with your partner. If the slot's jumping the snap count simulated action at the snap, it's a false start. You were correct to shut the play down. It doesn't matter whether he's a slot, a wide receiver, a set back, or even the QB. If he simulates action at the snap--for any reason--he's fouled. No opportunities to reset. That whole thing about "he can reset" went out with stirrup socks years ago.

nvfoa15 gave you the perfect litmus test in his post.

And it's the same for NF and NCAA as Jason posted above.

[Edited by Bob M. on Oct 13th, 2005 at 04:11 PM]

[Ed Hickland]

At 24 years I'm a youngster. Think you did the right thing. If he fooled you into thinking it was a snap, then the call was right.

On players who can go in motion it can be a tough call as to whther they are simulating the snap. Usually, and i say usually, the player will make a quick movement rather than a smooth start and sometimes you can read his face, "I just blew the snap count" written all over it.

As a referee I would rather see an official blow a quick dead ball foul than let it go only to make up some story about motion.

[schwinn]

This debate has been on here before and these words ring in my ears every game: "Nothing good can happen from letting this play go" - Bob M.

[Bob M.]

"Nothing good can happen from letting this play go"

REPLY: I wish those words were mine. They're actually from a guy who's a former HS official (NF), a former Big East official (NCAA), and a current NFL official. All three levels should be calling this the same way. College and pro officials consistently call this a false start. It seems that only in HS and below do we continuously argue about it.

[Edited by Bob M. on Oct 13th, 2005 at 09:38 PM]

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Kill it, kill it, kill it every time, kill it until it's well and truly dead. Yes, he's permitted to shift or begin motion. But if it makes me jump, I've got a flag.

[TXMike]

This is football and normally it is a foul to pile on, but I am doing so anyway (in case that is needed to get through to your thick skulled partner). False start all the way, using the same theory already espoused, if I think the play is startiung, it's a false start and I'm shutting it down.

[BayouUmp]

But the player who's in motion and turns up to quickly is called for illegal motion, not FS. Go figure.

[TXMike]

If I judge he missed the snap count and turned upfield early, it is a FS.

[MJT]

Shut it down. It doesn't matter what position the player is in, shut it down.