PF on TD Run

[golfdesigner]

Had this one yesterday..
A23 is running for TD, B75 is called for personal foul, well behind play but before A23 crosses goal line..
R throws Flag..then U signals TD..R goes to A captain and gives choice the 15-yards for the PF could be assessed on the try or on the kick-off..

When the end of the run is a TD, I thought the foul is assessed on the succeeding spot, which would be the try..

The PF was assessed on the Kick-off, with A kicking from B's 45-yd line..

Did we get that one right?
I haven't had chance to look it up in the books.

NFHS Rules, sorry guys.

[Edited by golfdesigner on Oct 9th, 2005 at 07:59 AM]

[TXMike]

NCAA -You can take on try or KO

[ljudge]

golfdesigner, I'm assuming this was not NCAA. If my assumption is correct you did not get this one correct. Our chapter (among many others I'm sure) are submitting this as a suggested rule change but for now it's from the succeeding spot (the try).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by golfdesigner
Had this one yesterday..
A23 is running for TD, B75 is called for personal foul, well behind play but before A23 crosses goal line..
R throws Flag..then U signals TD..R goes to A captain and gives choice the 15-yards for the PF could be assessed on the try or on the kick-off..

When the end of the run is a TD, I thought the foul is assessed on the succeeding spot, which would be the try..

The PF was assessed on the Kick-off, with A kicking from B's 45-yd line..

15 yards on the convert or on the kick-off. If there will be no kick-off, one can be induced. Or carried over to the kick-off in a different quarter. Basically, on a UR, the non-offending team can do whatever they want.

[BktBallRef]

NFHS, no, your R didn't get it right. It's succeeding spot.

[ABoselli]

NFHS - If the foul occurred before A23 crossed the goal line, why do not we have an all but one enforcement? The ball was not dead, it was a personal foul (whatever the action was, it was a contact foul), so by rule, we should go back 15 from the spot of the foul (a foul by the offense behind the basic spot) and replay the down.

If it were after he crossed the goal line, the ball is indeed dead, and we would assess on the try.

[golfdesigner]

Originally posted by ABoselli
NFHS - If the foul occurred before A23 crossed the goal line, why do not we have an all but one enforcement? The ball was not dead, it was a personal foul (whatever the action was, it was a contact foul), so by rule, we should go back 15 from the spot of the foul (a foul by the offense behind the basic spot) and replay the down.

If it were after he crossed the goal line, the ball is indeed dead, and we would assess on the try.

Foul was on B [defense] so we wouldn't want to penalize A [offense] by bringing the enforcement spot back to the "point of the foul" we would take it to the basic spot which would be the end of the run, and the end of the run was the goal line. So penalty enforcement would go the the succeeding spot, the try.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ABoselli
NFHS - If the foul occurred before A23 crossed the goal line, why do not we have an all but one enforcement? The ball was not dead, it was a personal foul (whatever the action was, it was a contact foul), so by rule, we should go back 15 from the spot of the foul (a foul by the offense behind the basic spot) and replay the down.

If it were after he crossed the goal line, the ball is indeed dead, and we would assess on the try.

The foul isn't by the offense.

...B75 is called for personal foul..."

[Forksref]

Originally posted by ABoselli
NFHS - If the foul occurred before A23 crossed the goal line, why do not we have an all but one enforcement? The ball was not dead, it was a personal foul (whatever the action was, it was a contact foul), so by rule, we should go back 15 from the spot of the foul (a foul by the offense behind the basic spot) and replay the down.

If it were after he crossed the goal line, the ball is indeed dead, and we would assess on the try.

"All but one" is a foul on the OFFENSE behind the basic spot, either end of run (run play) or previous spot (loose ball play).

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by ABoselli
NFHS - If the foul occurred before A23 crossed the goal line, why do not we have an all but one enforcement? The ball was not dead, it was a personal foul (whatever the action was, it was a contact foul), so by rule, we should go back 15 from the spot of the foul (a foul by the offense behind the basic spot) and replay the down.

If it were after he crossed the goal line, the ball is indeed dead, and we would assess on the try.

If A scores on a play when B commits a foul, A has the options to decline the foul or to take half the distance.

If B fouls on a sucessful try then only then can A take the foul to the kickoff. If it fails then obviously A retries the try.

[Rich]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1

If A scores on a play when B commits a foul, A has the options to decline the foul or to take half the distance.

If B fouls on a sucessful try then only then can A take the foul to the kickoff. If it fails then obviously A retries the try.

In NFHS rules, a foul by B on a scoring play is enforced at the succeeding spot (the try), not declined. I recognize that this thread has a mix of NCAA/NFHS officials....

[mcrowder]

Not "obviously". What if that extra point was the difference between being behind by 6, or by 5 if they made it, and it was late in the game. I'd assume they'd rather take it on the kickoff. (Is this legal in FED?)

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Not "obviously". What if that extra point was the difference between being behind by 6, or by 5 if they made it, and it was late in the game. I'd assume they'd rather take it on the kickoff. (Is this legal in FED?)

Good question - but the answer is no. NF 8-3-6 mandates that the try is replayed. Neither team has any option (although A can refuse the distance part of the penalty if they wish).

NF 8-3-6: If during an unsuccessful try, a foul by A occurs, the penalty is obviously declined, the results of the play stand and there is no replay. If B fouls, the down is replayed after enforcement.

[PSU213]

Originally posted by golfdesigner
Had this one yesterday..
A23 is running for TD, B75 is called for personal foul, well behind play but before A23 crosses goal line..
R throws Flag..then U signals TD..R goes to A captain and gives choice the 15-yards for the PF could be assessed on the try or on the kick-off..

When the end of the run is a TD, I thought the foul is assessed on the succeeding spot, which would be the try..

The PF was assessed on the Kick-off, with A kicking from B's 45-yd line..

Did we get that one right?
I haven't had chance to look it up in the books.

NFHS Rules, sorry guys.

[Edited by golfdesigner on Oct 9th, 2005 at 07:59 AM]

First, why was the U signalling TD? I'm not trying to be a stickler, and I know this isn't a universally accepted truth, but IMHO, U's shouldn't 'go up' with a TD signal (sorry if I get us involved in this again).

Also, as everyone else mentioned, enforce the foul on the try so it will be from the 1.5 yard line.

[golfdesigner]

Originally posted by PSU213

First, why was the U signalling TD? I'm not trying to be a stickler, and I know this isn't a universally accepted truth, but IMHO, U's shouldn't 'go up' with a TD signal (sorry if I get us involved in this again).

Also, as everyone else mentioned, enforce the foul on the try so it will be from the 1.5 yard line.

Three man crew, R, Wingman, and U. The U followed the play downfield. He was the closest to the play.
I think that's okay isn't it.