During last nights JV game, I was working with another Crew's White Hat and we had a discussion about roughing the kicker. The discussion was on a play similar to this:

4th and 25 on A's 40.

A is in scrimmage kick formation and the ball is snapped low. The kicker picks up the ball and starts to run. He gets near the sideline, but still is 10 yds behind the line of scrimmage. The kicker then sets himself and and punts. He is hit after the play and the WH flags it.

My contention is after he sets himself and kicks, he is a kicker and it would be roughing the kicker (you would give the defense more leeway, but roughing is still a possibility.)

The WH contends that once the kicker starts to run, he is a runner and can't have roughing the kicker, that it would be a personal foul for unnecessary roughness.

In this case it would make the difference between A having 1st & 10 and A having 4th and 10.

What is the right call on this?

First, we don't have "unnecessary roughness" (NFL) but I know what you mean. I had a similar play last Friday night and left the hankie in the pocket all together. It depends, in part, how he "sets himself." You need to judge the reasonableness of whether a kick can be made. I had the punter scramble and just as he approached the sideline kicked the ball at the last second then was contacted. The coach wanted roughing the kicker and I mentioned that it wasn't reasonable a kick would be made and the assistant agreed and told him as such. But, remember, the player who kicks is now a potential tackler of the return man so be careful about even calling a PF. I guess you gotta see it to say how you would really rule on this.

Just for clarity's sake, when he punts the ball, even though he ran some first, he is still a kicker (2-38-8...just so the kick is legal); so if it is ruled a foul, it can be roughing the kicker. If he no longer was a kicker by rule, and the R ruled that what team R did was not necessary (or use you own word here), it would be a personal foul. It is important to make the designation since roughing the kicker is an automatic first down, while the PF is not.

I think for us to offer a clear ruling, we would have to see the play. Unfortunately, we can't really say (or see) what "sets himself" means, and we cannot know if it was 'resonably certain' a kick would be made (as per rule 9-4-5a). I don't mean to give a non-answer answer, but without seeing the play, that is the best I can do.

We had it also Friday night. Team A did a "quick kick" from a non-scrimmage kick formation on 4th down. As the LJ, I was uncertain that they would kick. The referee flagged R for roughing the kicker and I think it was a very questionable call.

REPLY: Your contention is correct; your white hat's is not. PSU213's answer is a good summary.

If the punter is running with the ball I'd give him protection similar to that of a QB who passes on the run. If the defense is already committed to making the tackle it's not going to be flagged.