K12 executes an onside kick from K's 40. He kicks the ball so it immediately hits the ground and bounces high into the air. R25 is moving into the neutral zone at K's 48 yard line and is in position to catch the airborne ball. Before R25 can catch the ball, K50 levels R25 with a block and the ball goes untouched out of bounds.

What have you got?

You have a free kick out of bounds. R can have K penalized 5 yards and another free-kick, or put it in play 25 yards beyond the previous spot, OR take it at the out of bounds spot.

Since the kick touched the ground it is not kick-catching interference.

Exactly what I've got.

I have a dead ball Illegal participation on K

what????
 

why????

wow.

jwaz is saying that "K12" is the 12th player on the field where probably in the play descrition the 12 is actually the jersey number

BoBo that is the way I read it.

If it was the 12th player... how can someone participate illegally during a dead ball. Wouldn't it it either be a "dead ball illegal substitution" before the kick or "illegal participation" during the play?

Footnote: see other play I posted on similar kickoff subject. Was there something in the air last night?

If you would like an NCAA result, you still have a free kick OOB but you also have an illegal block on the kickers.
It's illegal as they cannot block until they are legally able to touch the ball which they can't do yet.

I would hope that the BJ counted his players prior to leaving the field. If so, he counted 12, then at the kick, dead ball, IS. If a K ran onto the field, then IP.

I have OOB on the play, R ball at point it went OOB. Due to the post, it sounds better than the 35!

Guyys theres a R25 and K50, i do not think K12 means the 12th guy on the field.

Is R25 the 25th r player on the field?

REPLY I knew it looked crowded out there! <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb02822' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_2v.gif' alt='Hmm' border=0></a>

To clarify: K12 is not a "12th man" on the field. Only a uniform number.

Under NFHS rules, does anyone have kick catching interference on this? The rule book appears to be "silent" on kick catching interference in the neutral zone on a free kick UNLESS the ball is in flight (i.e. has not hit the ground). It may seem appropriate to rule that the potential receiver was denied his right to the ball, but I can't find rules support for calling kick catching interference when the ball has been grounded. Agree or disagree?

Kentref,

You can't have KCI because the ball has been grounded.


[Edited by Patton on Oct 6th, 2005 at 06:17 PM]

Disagree, once the ball touches the ground its impossible to have KCI. When I get home I will cite the rule.

6-5-6 While any free-kick is in flight in or beyond the neutral zone to the receiver’s goal line or any scrimmage kick is in flight beyond the neutral zone to the receiver’s goal line, K shall not touch the ball or R, unless blocked into the ball or R or to ward off a blocker, nor obstruct R’s path to the ball. This prohibition applies even when no fair-catch signal is given, but it does not apply after a free-kick has been touched by a receiver, or after a scrimmage kick has been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching.
EXCEPTION: K may catch, touch, muff or bat a scrimmage kick in flight beyond the neutral zone if no player of R is in position to catch the ball.

The NZ has nothing to do with KCI, during a FK. If the ball has NOT touched the ground, it is KCI anywhere on the field, during a FK, regardless if no R players are in the area.

If the ball has hit the ground, there is no KCI. There can be first touching, in the NZ. If there is first touching, clock doesn't start.

That is the reason the kicker tops the ball, making it hit the ground and bounce into the air, so his team can field the ball beyond the NZ.

Green

Can R signal for a fair catch if the ball has hit the ground?

No, R may only signal for a fair catch while the kick is in flight. "in flight" meaning that the kick has not touched the ground. If R gives a fair catch signal after the kick has touched the ground, that would be an illegal fair catch signal.

Lets use the correct terms for NF.

Illegal FC signals are given by runners.
Invalid FC signals are given by receivers when a FC by rule cannot be made. Such as once the ball has hit the ground as in this case.

Why is this even a question still. I think it's been answered 8 times til Sunday. KCI ONLY applies to a ball in flight. A grounded ball is by definition not in flight.

Ok let me get this straight. if the ball is over the 45 yard line (NCAA assuming normal kickoff at 35), a block can be made by K. if it's not over the 45, then K cannot touch a R player? Let's assume the ball doesn't go out of bounds but is travelling towards the numbers (ball does hit the ground as in the original situation).

NCAA: Team-A (K) cannot block during a F/K until the ball has gone beyond team-B's (R) restraining line (i.e. 10 yards).

Of course the standard exceptions apply such as if a team-B player touches it prior to reaching that point or it touches anything beyond the restraining line of team-B.