Gentlemen,

Please view the play in the video clip linked below and comment on whether or not pass interference is a proper call under both NCAA and NFHS rules. If your answer would be different under the different rule codes, please say why. Also, if pass interference is the proper call, please describe the resulting enforcement in terms of spotting the ball, down, etc., again any diffferences between NCAA & NFHS.

The play originates with the offense at the defense's 25 yd. line, 4th down, 20 yds. to go for a 1st down.

http://home.comcast.net/~jmvideos/DefPI.wmv

This video is about 3.5MB in size, so probably best viewed over a broadband connection.

Thanks.

JM

I do not see any foul by any set of rules. It does not appear the DB got his arm at all, but the official is right there, so maybe he saw something the tape does not show. It looks like he reaches and tries to reach out and grab the receivers arm, but it doesn't look like he actually grabs it.

From this angle I don't see anything that could be called either offensive or defensive pass interference. I did find it interesting that the official took the time to signal an incomplete pass and then ... threw the flag.

IMO, pass interference is not the proper call, but if it was, defensive PI would result in a half the distance to the goal penalty with a first down for A from the 12 1/2 yd line.

Even Canadian Rules?!? I'm intrigued that you know our game so well. ;)

From this angle it doesn't appear
 

to me to be DPI but I'm not there. The defender appears to have reached out but whether he touched the receiver, I can't say for sure. If there was contact, it was slight and did not appear to have altered the movement of the receiver as the ball was to the right of and behind the receiver.

What level ball was this? The kids appear to be jr. high age. What was the experience level of the official which threw the flag?

Canadian Ruling
 

I got nuttin'.

I looked at the play again. Neither the intended receiver nor the other receiver that is moving from left to right react as if they were interfered with. I've still got nothing here re defensive PI.
I commented before on the official's reaction. I'm still wondering why he starts to signal incomplete pass and then stops and tosses the flag.

CoachJM: Can you provide any other info or perspectives on this play?

I gotta say that seeing this play from 80 yards away in the press box, I got nothin. Official is right on top of it though, so based on the flag that I saw that yello bullet come flying outta his pants, I've got what he's got.

It looks like it is possible that the defender could have touched the receiver’s left shoulder or arm. That is really hard to see on the tape. The official was right on top of the play. If there was contact on the play, it does not look like there was enough contact.

There is a Big Ten official that works the Back Judge position has told our association several times is, "There is going to be contact on every pass play. Our job is to determine when that contact caused and advantage."

Peace

I've got nothing and I don't think its a foul even though the video is far away. The official may be right on top of the play but he is out of position, starts to signal incomplete pass then throws the flag. I can tell just from this clip that this official is not a high caliber official (in nice words). But that's how youth ball usually is!

I just hope they didn't place the ball on the 1 yard line since the foul occured in the endzone.

Maybe he was calling PI on himself for screening the defender. What's this official doing back there anyway?

He's obviously the backjudge on a 3-man crew. :rolleyes:

REPLY: From what I observed, he should have kept the flag in his pocket. There was nothing on that play that even came close to warranting a flag. I have no idea what the official saw there.

I too agree that there was probably no pass interference in question.

I think CoachJM knows that, so what is the real purpose of having us look at this play?

Not sure, but I hope it is to better educate officials working in this league. New officials tend to call PI too much, at least that has been my experience when working lower level games with a new official.

Again just wondering...

Based on the angle of the video I agree with everybody, I see incomplete lets go to the next down. When you run the play in slo-mo, the only thing I see that the official could possibly hang his hat or flag on is the defender is initially watching the ball, then as the pass gets closer to the receiver, the defender forgets the ball and plays the man, but what a stretch.

I vote for nothing, put hanky back in pants and go on.

Obviously from our angle, it doesn't look like we have anything, but your question may be how to enforce the penalty that was called. If it was DPI, 15 yards and 1st down, but it looks like it would be half the distance to the goal line since it seems they started within the 30.

REPLY: CoachJM…since there is virtually 100% consensus that the play your provided doesn’t appear to be anything, let’s go back to your original question and answer the questions you posed, specifically the differences between NFHS and NCAA related to pass interference.

First, those actions which will draw a flag for PI are pretty much the same for NFHS and NCAA…with one notable exception. In NFHS, waving the arms/hands in front of the receiver’s eyes to obstruct his vision is called “faceguarding” and is a form of pass interference. In NCAA, pass interference must include personal contact. So faceguarding is legal in NCAA ball.

As far as penalties are concerned, NFHS’s penalty for defensive pass interference is 15 yards from the previous spot and the awarding of an automatic first down. The penalty for offensive pass interference is 15 yards from the previous spot and loss of down.

For NCAA, the penalty for offensive pass interference is 15 yards from the previous spot—no loss of down. That is, they get to replay the previous down. The penalty for defensive pass interference is more complicated. It’s a first down at the spot of the foul if that spot is less than 15 yards in advance of the spot the ball was snapped. It’s a first down 15 yards from the previous spot if that the foul occurred more than 15 yards in advance of the previous spot. If the ball is snapped between B’s 17 and B’s 2 and the foul occurs beyond B’s 2, then Team A is awarded a first down at B’s 2. (Note: In such a case, the “half-the-distance” rule is insignificant.) If the previous spot is inside B’s 2, then A gets a first down half-the-distance to the goal. An easy way to remember this is to start walking from the previous spot and stop when you reach the first of these reference spots:
SPOT OF THE FOUL
15 YARDS IN ADVANCE OF PREVIOUS SPOT
2-YD LINE
HALF-THE-DISTANCE.

In all cases, defensive pass interference also carries an automatic first down (new series).

Thanks to all who have replied.

For clarity, I am <b>not</b> a coach of this team, I just volunteered to do the game videos. As HLin NC correctly observed, this is Jr. High, primarily 8th graders, playing in a weight segregated (this level is 107-125 lbs.) travel league which uses NFHS rules. The games are officiated by 3-man crews who are supposed to be I(llinois)HSA-certified.

The call made on the field was DPI, the ball was placed just outside the defense's 10 yd. line, and the offense was awarded a 1st down. Needless to say, this call was not very popular with the fans of the defensive team.

I had two reeasons for posting:

1. To get some unbiased & objective opinions on whether or not the correct call was made.

2. To get a better understanding of the rules involved.

There was quite a bit of discussion among the fans about this play, primarily regarding whether or not a 1st down should have been awarded, what the proper spot should have been, and whether the pass was "catchable".

From the responses (thanks to Bob M. for the thorough answer regarding the rules), my understanding is that the 1st down is awarded by rule on a DPI even though the offense did not reach the line to gain, and the proper spot should have been about the 12 & 1/2 yd. line because it was a 15 yd. penalty from a previous spot inside the 30 - therefore, 1/2 the distance rather than 15 yds.

The one question that remains unresolved is whether a determination of whether the pass was catchable has any bearing on the call. My understanding is that this is not relevant under NFHS rules, but that it would be relevant in a game played under NCAA rules.

Thanks.

JM

REPLY: CaochJM...sorry, I forgot to mention that strictly speaking, "catchability" has no significnace in Federation ball like it does in NCAA. However, Federation has started to come around by saying that defensive PI-type contact away from the direction of the pass should not be flagged. But if that contact is on a receiver in the same direction as the pass is thrown--even if it's twenty feet over his head--you technically have pass interference in Federation, whereas it would be waved off in NCAA.

That's correct.

Thanks much.

JM