Ineligible Downfiedld on an Illegal Pass

[Ed Hickland]

Had this situation in a game.

Team A calls a running play. Linemen A69 and A67 go downfield about 7 yards to block.

B56 puts pressure on QB A7 who rushes toward the right sideline. Seeing A54 moving in his direction from the line of scrimmage toward him decides to throw the ball into an area no occupied by an eliglble receiver.

Two flags go up. LJ for an ineligible downfield. R for intentional grounding.

R gives B captain choice of ineligible or grounding penalty of which the captain accepts the grounding penalty.

U at halftime goes, how can you have an ineligible downfield on an illegal pass -- intentional grounding.

My answer is it is possible, especially, since neither official knows of the other's foul. The offended team captain in a multiple foul situation always has a choice of penalties that in this case is obvious, the intentional grounding.

Comment?

[mikesears]

One of those flags should have been waved off. The R should have waved off the ineligible downfield flag.

Rule 7-5-12.

Ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass play before a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone is in flight. If B touches the pass in or behind the neutral zone, this restriction is terminated. An ineligible is not illegally downfield if, at the snap, he immediately contacts a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone.

[BktBallRef]

You should always listen to the umpire.

[cowbyfan1]

You can have both Ed. While the defense will (and should) take the IG it is still a pass from behind the LOS and that landed beyond the LOS. Signal both fouls and give the defense their choice. Good call.

[Ed Hickland]

I never thought about it for one moment until my umpire questioned it. That's why he is my umpire, to keep me honest.

Two different penalties that conflict. The ineligibles were illegally downfield if the pass had been legal. Penalized from the previous spot.

The intentional grounding made what would have been a clear cut ineligible downfield into a "fuzzy" situation. (QB should have know better than to generate a test question.)

When you have multiple fouls the offended teanm can only take one. My style is to "tell" the captain what he is going to choose when the situation is so easy and praise him for his wisdom in making such a good choice.

This time it was take the intentional grounding, five yards from the spot of the foul and loss of down, which would cancel the ineligible downfield.

[waltjp]

The intential grounding is an illegal pass.

7.5.12 states that ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass.

If you did throw on the ineligble downfield, which you should because the R should be calling the grounding penalty, it should be waved off and the intential grounding enforced. Keep in mind the the grounding penalty carries a loss of down.

[don't move]

Also, keep in mind, an illegal forward pass is a running play. Both were correct to throw their flags, but the ineligible downfield must be waved off. This cannot be a multiple foul.

[kentref]

Originally posted by Ed Hickland
I never thought about it for one moment until my umpire questioned it. That's why he is my umpire, to keep me honest.

Excellent point made. It's essential we get the call right.

[MJT]

Originally posted by don't move
Also, keep in mind, an illegal forward pass is a running play. Both were correct to throw their flags, but the ineligible downfield must be waved off. This cannot be a multiple foul.

Agreed!

[BulldogMcC]

I agree that this is not a multiple foul situation, I think this case was easy to get right for the wrong reason though since the illegal pass enforcment is the harsher result for A even if you mistakenly called it a multiple foul and let B have their choice. B is always going to take 5 yards + LOD over 5 yards.

In that light, consider the situation where A12 crosses the NZ before throwing a pass, properly flagged by the U, and A88 is 25 yards down field and pushes off prior to making the catch and draws a flag for offensive pass interference from the Back Judge. In this case, the flag for OPI still has to be waved off as it can only occur during a legal forward pass and B can only accept or decline the 5 yard + LOD penalty for the illegal forward pass.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Agree that the IDF foul should have been waved off:
NF 7-5-6: "Pass eligibility rules apply only to a legal forward pass."

[Theisey]

What a conincidence, last nights meeting we were shown a crew film with a voice over by the conference supervisor that had exactly this kind of play.

Enforce only the illegal pass was the bottom line as that is the only foul.