Illegal Participation

[Samdog]

If any player INTENTIONALLY goes out of bounds during the down, is this illegal participation. Or is it when he re-enters the field of play?

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Samdog
If any player INTENTIONALLY goes out of bounds during the down, is this illegal participation. Or is it when he re-enters the field of play?

It is a foul if he returns and the point where he returned is the spot of the foul.

No player shall intentionally go out of bounds and return

[ref18]

It is a foul if he participates in the play following his re-entry.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally posted by mikesears

It is a foul if he returns and the point where he returned is the spot of the foul.

No player shall intentionally go out of bounds and return

It is important to bean bag the spot where he goes out and flag the spot where he comes back in.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long

It is important to bean bag the spot where he goes out and flag the spot where he comes back in.

Where did you get that? The flag at the spot he ran back into the field of play is all you need. It does not matter where he ran out, the point is that he did and all that matters is where he did.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1

Where did you get that? The flag at the spot he ran back into the field of play is all you need. It does not matter where he ran out, the point is that he did and all that matters is where he did.

I bleieve the mechanic manual says that but as you said the spot has no relevance.

[Daryl H. Long]

The spot where he goes out does have relevance.

For penalty administration? NO
For communication? YES
For my credibility? Most assuredly.

By beanbagging the spot you have said the player INTENTIONALLY went out on his own accord and was not blocked out.

When you flag the spot where he returns now you have two points of reference of which to communicate to referee and coach of the infraction.

If I can say #82 went out at the 25yl (beanbag) and returned at the 32yl (flag) then all doubt is erased. What cridibility do I have by reporting to the referee I have a flag for illegal participation or Offensive pass interference, etc. and when asked where the player went out I have to say I do not know?

And when you tell the coach on your sideline you are not sure where the player went out he is sure to go ballistic when you tell him additionally the Off. PI penalty also carries loss of down. As a referee, I will smile as the coach reams you a new one. All because you thought the proper mechanic as listed in the NF could be ignored because the spot was not relevant.

[SouthGARef]

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long And when you tell the coach on your sideline you are not sure where the player went out he is sure to go ballistic when you tell him additionally the Off. PI penalty also carries loss of down.
[/B]

If a player returning from OOB touches a pass it's Pass Intereference? Can you give me a rule reference, because I don't have a rulebook in front of me, and I did not know this. I thought it was just IP.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long
The spot where he goes out does have relevance.

For penalty administration? NO
For communication? YES
For my credibility? Most assuredly.

By beanbagging the spot you have said the player INTENTIONALLY went out on his own accord and was not blocked out.

When you flag the spot where he returns now you have two points of reference of which to communicate to referee and coach of the infraction.

If I can say #82 went out at the 25yl (beanbag) and returned at the 32yl (flag) then all doubt is erased. What cridibility do I have by reporting to the referee I have a flag for illegal participation or Offensive pass interference, etc. and when asked where the player went out I have to say I do not know?

And when you tell the coach on your sideline you are not sure where the player went out he is sure to go ballistic when you tell him additionally the Off. PI penalty also carries loss of down. As a referee, I will smile as the coach reams you a new one. All because you thought the proper mechanic as listed in the NF could be ignored because the spot was not relevant.

You must have some tough coaches in your area.

[Mike L]

Originally posted by SouthGARef

If a player returning from OOB touches a pass it's Pass Intereference? Can you give me a rule reference, because I don't have a rulebook in front of me, and I did not know this. I thought it was just IP. [/B]

No, it's not unless he does something more than just go out of bounds and return. That is illegal participation. Once an eligible receiver, always and eligible receiver. At least in NF.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by mikesears

You must have some tough coaches in your area.

That's what I was thinking.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally posted by SouthGARef

If a player returning from OOB touches a pass it's Pass Intereference? Can you give me a rule reference, because I don't have a rulebook in front of me, and I did not know this. I thought it was just IP. [/B]

Even though he stepped out of bounds he continues to be a player (2-30-1). At the start of every down players are either eligible or ineligible (7-5-6a). Team A has restrictions but all Team B players are eligible (7-5-6-c). A player who is eligible at the start of the down remains eligible throughout the down (7-5-6d).

As we have discussed if the player goes out and returns it is illegal participation (9-6-2). But this assumes that is the only foul to occur duing the play. Remember in definition of a rule the last sentence reads "if a foul is mentioned, it is assumed that it is not a part of a double or multiple foul unless so stated or implied". (2-35)

Just because a player commits one foul does not exonerate him from committing a subsequent foul. If he commits multiple fouls during the play the offended team still has option of which one to accept. If the penalties were by Team A then Team B will in most cases accept OPI because it also carries loss of down. It the penalties were by Team B then Team A will accept the one that gives them a first down closest to B's goal line.

The same player who stepped out could commit additional fouls. Your question addressed pass interference.

Pass interference (Off/Def) is discussed in 7-5-10 and also the chart on page 58 of rule book.

[Snake~eyes]

I still don't see how its OPI.

[dumbref]

While it is possible for that player to also commit OPI, it has nothing to do with him intentionally going OOB. He is still restricted from blocking or otherwise interfering. But he is also still eligible to catch the pass.

[Edited by dumbref on Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:50 PM]

[Patton]

I'm sorry Daryl, You've lost me. How does beanbagging the spot where a player intentionally went out of bounds relate to OPI?

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long
Your question addressed pass interference

When?