If any player INTENTIONALLY goes out of bounds during the down, is this illegal participation. Or is it when he re-enters the field of play?

It is a foul if he returns and the point where he returned is the spot of the foul.

No player shall intentionally go out of bounds and return

Canadian Ruling
 

It is a foul if he participates in the play following his re-entry.

It is important to bean bag the spot where he goes out and flag the spot where he comes back in.

Where did you get that? The flag at the spot he ran back into the field of play is all you need. It does not matter where he ran out, the point is that he did and all that matters is where he did.

I bleieve the mechanic manual says that but as you said the spot has no relevance.

The spot where he goes out does have relevance.

For penalty administration? NO
For communication? YES
For my credibility? Most assuredly.

By beanbagging the spot you have said the player INTENTIONALLY went out on his own accord and was not blocked out.

When you flag the spot where he returns now you have two points of reference of which to communicate to referee and coach of the infraction.

If I can say #82 went out at the 25yl (beanbag) and returned at the 32yl (flag) then all doubt is erased. What cridibility do I have by reporting to the referee I have a flag for illegal participation or Offensive pass interference, etc. and when asked where the player went out I have to say I do not know?

And when you tell the coach on your sideline you are not sure where the player went out he is sure to go ballistic when you tell him additionally the Off. PI penalty also carries loss of down. As a referee, I will smile as the coach reams you a new one. All because you thought the proper mechanic as listed in the NF could be ignored because the spot was not relevant.

If a player returning from OOB touches a pass it's Pass Intereference? Can you give me a rule reference, because I don't have a rulebook in front of me, and I did not know this. I thought it was just IP.

You must have some tough coaches in your area.

No, it's not unless he does something more than just go out of bounds and return. That is illegal participation. Once an eligible receiver, always and eligible receiver. At least in NF.

That's what I was thinking.

Even though he stepped out of bounds he continues to be a player (2-30-1). At the start of every down players are either eligible or ineligible (7-5-6a). Team A has restrictions but all Team B players are eligible (7-5-6-c). A player who is eligible at the start of the down remains eligible throughout the down (7-5-6d).

As we have discussed if the player goes out and returns it is illegal participation (9-6-2). But this assumes that is the only foul to occur duing the play. Remember in definition of a rule the last sentence reads "if a foul is mentioned, it is assumed that it is not a part of a double or multiple foul unless so stated or implied". (2-35)

Just because a player commits one foul does not exonerate him from committing a subsequent foul. If he commits multiple fouls during the play the offended team still has option of which one to accept. If the penalties were by Team A then Team B will in most cases accept OPI because it also carries loss of down. It the penalties were by Team B then Team A will accept the one that gives them a first down closest to B's goal line.

The same player who stepped out could commit additional fouls. Your question addressed pass interference.

Pass interference (Off/Def) is discussed in 7-5-10 and also the chart on page 58 of rule book.

I still don't see how its OPI.

While it is possible for that player to also commit OPI, it has nothing to do with him intentionally going OOB. He is still restricted from blocking or otherwise interfering. But he is also still eligible to catch the pass.

[Edited by dumbref on Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:50 PM]

I'm sorry Daryl, You've lost me. How does beanbagging the spot where a player intentionally went out of bounds relate to OPI?

When?

The way I read it, the only time you have this foul is if A (or K) INTENTIONALLY goes out of bounds. If A a receiver and is eyeing the ball trying to catch it, and ACCIDENTALLY steps on the sideline and then catches it inbounds, we do not have a participation foul.
Is this correct?

No. Read rule 9-6-1, nothing about "intent" or "accident" for A or K. Simply says they may not go OOB and return unless blocked out and if blocked out they must return at first opportunity. 9-6-2 covers for all players A, B, R, & K for intentionally going out & returning.
The original point brought out by this thread is still correct, the answer key is wrong because the question only states the player went OOB. They can do that all they want as long as they stay there during the remainder of the down.

I logged on tonight to find I have caused some confusion. I reread my post and now I understand why. While rearranging sentences in my post using 'cut and paste" unfortunately an important part to my answer to SouthGaRef's question did not get pasted. I will answer it again to hopefully clear things up.

SouthGaRef asked: If a player returning from OOB touches a pass it's Pass Intereference? Can you give me a rule reference, because I don't have a rulebook in front of me, and I did not know this. I thought it was just IP.

No, this is not pass interference. He is still an eligible receiver so his touching is legal. But he is still guilty of returning from OOB so you have correctly concluded the penalty is Illegal participation.

The Offensive pass interference I was talking about earlier involved the player who had stepped out and returned and while then participating physically hinders the defensive player from trying to catch a legal forward pass.

The same player who stepped out could commit additional fouls. Your question addressed pass interference so lets use that as an example. Pass interference (Off/Def) is discussed in 7-5-10 and also the chart on page 58 of rule book.

Rules support is as follows:

Above is the part that was missing. I then went on to write:

Even though he stepped out of bounds he continues to be a player (2-30-1). At the start of every down players are either eligible or ineligible (7-5-6a). Team A has restrictions but all Team B players are eligible (7-5-6-c). A player who is eligible at the start of the down remains eligible throughout the down (7-5-6d).

As we have discussed if the player goes out and returns it is illegal participation (9-6-2). But this assumes that is the only foul to occur duing the play. Remember in definition of a rule the last sentence reads "if a foul is mentioned, it is assumed that it is not a part of a double or multiple foul unless so stated or implied". (2-35)

Just because a player commits one foul does not exonerate him from committing a subsequent foul. If he commits multiple fouls during the play the offended team still has option of which one to accept. If the penalties were by Team A then Team B will in most cases accept OPI because it also carries loss of down.

Again I am sorry for the confusion.

Hopefully I cleared up some confusion on PI by my amended post.

As to the beanbag:

I have been very specific as to why I will beangbag the spot where the player went OB. It has nothing to do with the administration of any penalty.

It has everything to do with showing I saw the whole play which will add to my credibility as an official not only to my peers on the field but also to coaches.

The beanbag at the spot where the player went out of bounds is only a visual confirmation of what I saw. During the fast action of the play I do not have to be distracted with knowing the exact yard line in case I am asked "WHERE?". I know definitively when I return to pick up the beanbag. Additionally, I can show evidence I saw the player go out because I have a bean bag at the spot noting such.

As to my officiating credibility: In Ohio, coaches and Athletic directors have a vote for playoff officials. On Friday night if I communicate to the coach of the offending team that "your player exited on the 25yl and returned on the 30yl" it seems to me to be a lot better than saying "I don't know exactly where your player went out but when he returned to the field at the 28 it became an illegal participation penalty". Besides, on Saturday, when they view their video tape and confirm the information I gave them about this play was correct also helps.

Snake-eyes thinks the NF says to do this in the Officials manual. Personally,I think I have read it somewhere else, maybe Referee Magazine. Whether written or not, I still advocate the use of the beanbag in this case but I am not telling you it is Mandatory. Do what you want.

I'd be curious where it stated to use the bean bag to mark the spot where he went out. I have never heard this before.
I will also stick with the flag only. If a coach asks me where he went out I will tell him the same thing I told him originally, "number XX ran out of bounds on his own and reentered during the play." I will tell the WH where he came back in for penalty administration. I'll hang onto my bean bag for something more important, like a fumble or the end of a scrimmage kick.