5 man scrimmage kick coverage

[l3will]

Last year I moved from one state to another state and subbed for various varsity crews. In all of the crews
they move the umpire from behing R's side of the line
of scrimmage and place him on K's side of the line of scrimmage opposite the referee, thus flanking the kicker.

I did ask why and never got a good explanation for
this different coverage. Anyone have a good expanation?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Was this for all scrimmage kicks? Was it different if the kick was a scoring attempt (FG or try)? If you remember, the NFL experimented with this a few years back. And they gave it up fairly quickly--after just one season as I recall.

[l3will]

It was only for non-scoring attempts.

Some of the crews used what I think is also bizarre coverage
on trys and short field goal attempts. They put the umpire
back under the cross-bar with the back judge. Then leave
the linesman and line judge on the line of scrimmage.

In one of the games in which I subbed, "A" lined up in to
attempt what looked like a short field goal. I was the
back judge and the umpire was back with me behind the
other upright. "A" then ran a fake field goal with a
pass over the middle. Sometime during the play one
of the "B" players had his lower leg broken and ended
up about where the holder had been. No one on the
crew saw the contact that caused the broken leg.

I was told in all of the instances where this mechanic
was used that it was more important to cover the goal
line than look for holding in the line.

comments?

[Deep]

I don't like the mechanic of dropping the U back with the B on a post. However, it is pretty common in my area. The reasoning behind it is supposed to be better pylon coverage by the LJ. But I think you give up too much in the middle. People who use it claim that the U can still protect the snapper, etc. But my experience is that the U is excited about being back there and doesn't always remember to do his protection thing.

I'd rather have the U in position and give up the pylon occassionally. It seems to me to be a percentage thing. Every single field goal and try will have contact in the middle that the U should be looking at. Just how many close pylon plays to the LJ's side do we have in these situations? 1 in 100, 1 in 500, 1 in 1000?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: We actually used the U-under-the-post technique for a while, only on tries and FG attempts from inside the ten. Frankly, we liked it. Our U felt comfortable that he could see the snapper, take care of all his pree-snap requirements and still rule on the attempt. Then the state association told us to cease and desist--afraid that it would encourage roughing against the snapper that the U couldn't properly enforce. We didn't see it that way, but you just do what you're told.

The problem with the LJ under the bar is not just the 'pylon play' as much as it is that the entire sideline is exposed and uncovered. So any play near the LJ's sideline from a FG/Try formation requires someone's best guess. Another technique I've heard of being used is to have the wing official on the same side as the R go under. Sometimes it might be the LJ; other times, it could be the HL. But that way, the R is in a half-way decent, though not optimal, position to help out on the exposed sideline.

[Deep]

Bob, the idea of sending the wing on the same side as the R sounds like a pretty good idea.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Deep...I have to admit, we've never used it, but I did hear about some crews doing it. So I have no first-hand experience. But intuitively it seems to make sense.

[Snake~eyes]

I'd prefer for the HL to go, that way the LJ can see if the kick crosses the neutral zone easier since the LTG equipment is on the other side. But what trumps that is I'd rather have the wing on the same side of the R go, that way the R can run to the sideline to cover it.

[Warrenkicker]

From what I remember Ohio started the trend a few years back of not always sending LJ back to the goal post for trys and field goals. We have used this for two or three years around here so that R can maintain a good view of the holder and the ball. He then has some position toward the uncovered sideline and can help there if required. If R always stays opposite HL then he gets to look at the back of the holder half the time. And if R is always in position to view the hold and HL stays, then half the field is uncovered half the time.

Here in Kansas we also have LJ cheat downfield on punts prior to the snap to get better position on the blocks in front of the deep returners.

[Forksref]

Our crew does not do it. I think it is a poor mechanic in that if the kicker or anyone else on the K team wants to throw a pass, you don't have the umpire at the LOS to judge if the passer was across the line. Things have gone fine leaving it the way it always was.

[Tom.OH]

Yes in Ohio we have the wing looking at the R's backside under the goalpost with the B. With this coverage both wings will cover the kick depending on which goal we are at. What really messes us up is when there is a left footed kicker and the R is on the other side! On a broken /fake kick the L or LJ move to the goal line and the R covers the sidelines.

[cowbyfan1]

There are a number of things that are left uncovered either if you move the LJ or U. We can all agree on that. My thought it why not work it like 4 man in a sense? Put the BJ under the cross bar to determine over/under. Then the R gets between and have the HL get the kicker/holder protection. The LJ gets if ball goes over the LOS. U has center and the line. This way if there is a fake, everyone is already in position to deal with the play.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
There are a number of things that are left uncovered either if you move the LJ or U. We can all agree on that. My thought it why not work it like 4 man in a sense? Put the BJ under the cross bar to determine over/under. Then the R gets between and have the HL get the kicker/holder protection. The LJ gets if ball goes over the LOS. U has center and the line. This way if there is a fake, everyone is already in position to deal with the play.

Because in a VAR game, having to guys come out and signal looks better? I don't know.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
There are a number of things that are left uncovered either if you move the LJ or U. We can all agree on that. My thought it why not work it like 4 man in a sense? Put the BJ under the cross bar to determine over/under. Then the R gets between and have the HL get the kicker/holder protection. The LJ gets if ball goes over the LOS. U has center and the line. This way if there is a fake, everyone is already in position to deal with the play.

This could work. Or, heck, just stick the BJ behind the posts and leave everyone else where they normally are stationed. BJ has complete responsibility for whether or not the kick is good - from that position, it's not hard to tell which side of an upright the ball passes.

[skybackjudge]

Our state mechanic sends the U back if the FG try is below the 15 yard line, and then the LJ if the try is farther out then the 15. I haven't heard an official reason for this decision, but personally I think this allows the LJ to get to the pylon (or at least to the goal line) in the event there is a busted kick attempt fake.

On a similar note, we had a team a few years ago that didn't have a punter so the coach informed us before the game that he would try a field goal on all 4th down attempts regardless of where he was on the field. Seeing the absurdity of sending the LJ back for a 50 yeard attempt, we only sent him under the bars if they tried an attempt inside the 40.