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radwaste50 Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:59am

From Badjocks and Dallas morning news

LANCASTER – Brandon Jackson was easy to spot Monday at Lancaster High School's first football practice. He was the one running routes and throwing passes while wearing an ankle monitor so law enforcement officials could keep track of his whereabouts.

Would this have to be taped and padded for play

What a fine upstanding young man/sarcasm/

Hope this question doesnt arise in one of my games

waltjp Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:04pm

I don't know about padded as you would require for a cast but I'd definitely want it covered as you would for a knee brace.

tpaul Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:46pm

Here is a good idea, how about if the kid is in that much trouble...he doesn't play! I wish coaches would get some balls and sit some guys if they can't follow the rules of life. Somethings are more important then a HS football game, same goes for winning a HS football game.

When I played, nobody was bigger then the team and if you thought so you would be riding the bench!

GBFBUmp Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by waltjp
I don't know about padded as you would require for a cast but I'd definitely want it covered as you would for a knee brace.

(Illegal equipment )- 1.5.3.e - Metal which is projecting or other hard substance on clothes or person.


By rule I would carefully look at this. If it isn't covered like a knee brace I would tell the coach to get it covered or the delinquent doesn't play. 1/2 inch closed cell slow recovery rubber, etc.

In my mind I would say the kid is benched the entire season, (but make him do all the practices).

Snake~eyes Fri Aug 12, 2005 01:42pm

Glad I'm not an umpire... :D

TXMike Sat Aug 13, 2005 05:19am

In this particular case, at least one coach DID have balls. The kid transferred from his original school as coach there would not let him participate. There is no
"governing legal authority" in this typw situation here so the gaining coach chose to ignore the recommendations of the stat coach's association .

tpaul Sat Aug 13, 2005 08:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by TXMike
In this particular case, at least one coach DID have balls. The kid transferred from his original school as coach there would not let him participate. There is no
"governing legal authority" in this typw situation here so the gaining coach chose to ignore the recommendations of the stat coach's association .

Mike,
that is good to hear! atleast one coach did!

Texoma_LJ Sat Aug 13, 2005 08:41am

I think the best thing to do is to classify it as jewelry. The player has to remove it before he is allowed to play. "Oh.. can't get it off coach??? ,,,then kid cant play"

Seems like an easy solution, besides it is an "ankle bracelet"

tpaul Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by Texoma_LJ
I think the best thing to do is to classify it as jewelry. The player has to remove it before he is allowed to play. "Oh.. can't get it off coach??? ,,,then kid cant play"

Seems like an easy solution, besides it is an "ankle bracelet"

I like that one Tex!

waltjp Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by Texoma_LJ
I think the best thing to do is to classify it as jewelry. The player has to remove it before he is allowed to play. "Oh.. can't get it off coach??? ,,,then kid cant play"

Seems like an easy solution, besides it is an "ankle bracelet"

This is the best idea I've heard.

Theisey Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:01pm

The coach should contact Martha Stewart.. I'll bet she has some tips on how to remove it for a while.

Seriously, I don't think the athlete should be allowed to participate (on the field) while wearing this device.

Whether or not he should be on the team is another matter in which I have no comment on since I really don't know all the facts in this case.

James Neil Sat Aug 13, 2005 02:31pm

I know I'll probably get slammed by some of you but I don't think it’s right to make any judgments on this kid at all except for his actions on the field or sideline. . I have no idea why he’s got the device and I don’t want to know. Maybe it’s been determined that by letting this kid play it just might help turn his life around. As an Umpire I would ask the coach it he could remove the device. If not then I would ask that it be tightly secured, padded and covered. We are there to make sure the game is played safe and by the rules. Nothing else

Mark Dexter Sat Aug 13, 2005 03:27pm

This seems to come up at least once every few years in one sport or another.

I think that I would, at the least, want some sort of letter from the state certifying that he could wear it while playing. I have no idea how they hold up to the rigors of football, and I don't want to be the one to find out.

WyMike Sat Aug 13, 2005 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Quote:

Originally posted by TXMike
In this particular case, at least one coach DID have balls. The kid transferred from his original school as coach there would not let him participate. There is no
"governing legal authority" in this typw situation here so the gaining coach chose to ignore the recommendations of the stat coach's association .

Mike,
that is good to hear! atleast one coach did!

Is that the ACLU I hear coming from the left?

~

tpaul Sat Aug 13, 2005 08:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
I know I'll probably get slammed by some of you but I don't think it’s right to make any judgments on this kid at all except for his actions on the field or sideline. . I have no idea why he’s got the device and I don’t want to know. Maybe it’s been determined that by letting this kid play it just might help turn his life around. As an Umpire I would ask the coach it he could remove the device. If not then I would ask that it be tightly secured, padded and covered. We are there to make sure the game is played safe and by the rules. Nothing else
James,
where are you from? Where I am from (Trenton, NJ). People wearing such a device is already guitlty....

James Neil Sat Aug 13, 2005 08:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
I know I'll probably get slammed by some of you but I don't think it’s right to make any judgments on this kid at all except for his actions on the field or sideline. . I have no idea why he’s got the device and I don’t want to know. Maybe it’s been determined that by letting this kid play it just might help turn his life around. As an Umpire I would ask the coach it he could remove the device. If not then I would ask that it be tightly secured, padded and covered. We are there to make sure the game is played safe and by the rules. Nothing else
James,
where are you from? Where I am from (Trenton, NJ). People wearing such a device is already guitlty....

I’m from Oregon Thomas, and what does a person being guilty of anything have to do with us as Officials? We aren't his Judge or jury. He has the right to pay the price for his bad decisions and move on without further judgments and prejudices from others not concerned with his judicious infractions.

tpaul Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
I know I'll probably get slammed by some of you but I don't think it’s right to make any judgments on this kid at all except for his actions on the field or sideline. . I have no idea why he’s got the device and I don’t want to know. Maybe it’s been determined that by letting this kid play it just might help turn his life around. As an Umpire I would ask the coach it he could remove the device. If not then I would ask that it be tightly secured, padded and covered. We are there to make sure the game is played safe and by the rules. Nothing else
James,
where are you from? Where I am from (Trenton, NJ). People wearing such a device is already guitlty....

I’m from Oregon Thomas, and what does a person being guilty of anything have to do with us as Officials? We aren't his Judge or jury. He has the right to pay the price for his bad decisions and move on without further judgments and prejudices from others not concerned with his judicious infractions.


That is a bunch of liberal crap. The "kid" must have committed a major crime to have to wear such a device. He is wearing it why? Because they trust him? No, it is to track him. You're right it's not our job to "judge" him but what is important here? His rights to play football and reward him? If this devise has to be worn then maybe he shouldn't be permitted to play.

Come here do some inter-city games. I feel sorry for the kids who work hard to change their life by education and playing sports. But I am sick of players who break the law and because they are a "great" player. It is okay....

Redneck Ref Sun Aug 14, 2005 05:41am

This is from the Dallas Morning News.

Move Over Martha Stewart: HS Football Star Under House Arrest Wears Ankle Monitor to Football Practice - Brandon Jackson is being recruited by some major college football programs (Oklahoma, Kansas State and Texas A&M) and is expected to be a star wide receiver for Lancaster High School in Texas this season. Jackson's just like every other prep school football player starting two-a-day practices in anticipation of the coming football season . . . except for one little thing: the black ankle monitor around his right leg. You see, Jackson is under house arrest until his trial on Oct. 17 trial on six counts of aggravated robbery. If convicted, each a first-degree felony punishable by a prison term of five to 99 years or life. Right now though, he's concentrating on football and his attorney says the young gridiron star will plead not guilty at the trial. Apparently, until Jackson is convicted of the charges, he is still eligible to play, but may have to sit out the season for another reason: last year he played for North Mesquite High School and the coach there will not release him to play at Lancaster because the only reason he transferred was for athletic reasons. As to the robbery charges, Jackson will only say that he made a mistake adding "I couldn't really tell you what I was thinking. I can't tell you if I was thinking." At right, a picture of Jackson's ankles during football practice.

TXMike Sun Aug 14, 2005 08:53am

Tpaul - I can't speak for Trenton but in many progressive parts of the country, the devices are also being used to track folks that are out on bond, pending trial. The system has learned that it is less expensive to get as many folks out of the facilities until they are convicted. In the past it was pretty much just an honor system. Technological advances have made these devices cheaper, more reliable, and just an all around better alternative to pretrial incarceration in man cases. In this particular case, the offender is still pending trial.

Snake~eyes Sun Aug 14, 2005 01:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
I know I'll probably get slammed by some of you but I don't think it’s right to make any judgments on this kid at all except for his actions on the field or sideline. . I have no idea why he’s got the device and I don’t want to know. Maybe it’s been determined that by letting this kid play it just might help turn his life around. As an Umpire I would ask the coach it he could remove the device. If not then I would ask that it be tightly secured, padded and covered. We are there to make sure the game is played safe and by the rules. Nothing else
James,
where are you from? Where I am from (Trenton, NJ). People wearing such a device is already guitlty....

I’m from Oregon Thomas, and what does a person being guilty of anything have to do with us as Officials? We aren't his Judge or jury. He has the right to pay the price for his bad decisions and move on without further judgments and prejudices from others not concerned with his judicious infractions.

I'm with you James, I don't care why he's wearing it and it shouldn't matter on whether i determine if he's playing or not. It is irrelevant, sports teach you a lot about life, maybe he is in the progress of turning his life around, you don't know. And you shouldn't care either.

Forksref Sun Aug 14, 2005 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Here is a good idea, how about if the kid is in that much trouble...he doesn't play! I wish coaches would get some balls and sit some guys if they can't follow the rules of life. Somethings are more important then a HS football game, same goes for winning a HS football game.

When I played, nobody was bigger then the team and if you thought so you would be riding the bench!


Sports might be the only thing positive in his life and something that keeps his interest. I wouldn't be so quick to slam him. Why throw more punishment on a kid? I am glad I didn't grow up in some of these households.

WhistlesAndStripes Mon Aug 15, 2005 05:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul
Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
I know I'll probably get slammed by some of you but I don't think it’s right to make any judgments on this kid at all except for his actions on the field or sideline. . I have no idea why he’s got the device and I don’t want to know. Maybe it’s been determined that by letting this kid play it just might help turn his life around. As an Umpire I would ask the coach it he could remove the device. If not then I would ask that it be tightly secured, padded and covered. We are there to make sure the game is played safe and by the rules. Nothing else
James,
where are you from? Where I am from (Trenton, NJ). People wearing such a device is already guitlty....

I’m from Oregon Thomas, and what does a person being guilty of anything have to do with us as Officials? We aren't his Judge or jury. He has the right to pay the price for his bad decisions and move on without further judgments and prejudices from others not concerned with his judicious infractions.

So JAmes, you mean to tell me that you're a family man with little kids, and when some sex offender moves into the house across the street from you, you aren't going to have any prejudices about him because he molested someone else's kids? Bull$hit!!

James Neil Mon Aug 15, 2005 06:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

So JAmes, you mean to tell me that you're a family man with little kids, and when some sex offender moves into the house across the street from you, you aren't going to have any prejudices about him because he molested someone else's kids? Bull$hit!! [/B]
That’s not what we're talking about Potty-Mouth. I’m talking about our duties on the field and how I think it’s important to conduct ourselves in a professional manor without bias , This is my last word in this thread. Lets get back to some rule study

WhistlesAndStripes Mon Aug 15, 2005 06:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

So JAmes, you mean to tell me that you're a family man with little kids, and when some sex offender moves into the house across the street from you, you aren't going to have any prejudices about him because he molested someone else's kids? Bull$hit!!
That’s not what we're talking about Potty-Mouth. I’m talking about our duties on the field and how I think it’s important to conduct ourselves in a professional manor without bias , This is my last word in this thread. Lets get back to some rule study [/B]
No, that is what we're talking about.

ref18 Tue Aug 16, 2005 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tpaul

That is a bunch of liberal crap. The "kid" must have committed a major crime to have to wear such a device. He is wearing it why? Because they trust him? No, it is to track him. You're right it's not our job to "judge" him but what is important here? His rights to play football and reward him? If this devise has to be worn then maybe he shouldn't be permitted to play.



Amen...

...although up here in Canada, he wouldn't have to worry about the device, he'd be out on his own with restrictions that couldn't be enforced.

If I was officiating one of his games, I wouldn't let him play, it's not there to help him in a medical way, it's not religious therefore it's not needed in a football game, and unless I was forced to from above, I wouldn't let him play with it. One less liability I need to worry about.

One other thing, in his words he admitted to committing the crime, in addition this crime was a felony. Why is it that people are protecting this guy and defending him. He's a criminal.

[Edited by ref18 on Aug 16th, 2005 at 05:25 PM]

NoTrumpKing Tue Aug 16, 2005 05:52pm

Ankle monitors
 
Last year in Ky, we had a situation arise - similarly. In the Ky case he'd been convicted and was on home incarceration with scholl activities included. In our state a felony conviction precludes one from coaching, teaching or officiating. This included playing according to our Umpire at that game. This kid needs to get a life free of crime & miscreant behavior. The NFL mollycoddles too many criminals and that becomes model behavior for kids with talent & ability, but who have highly limited social skills. They need further "coaching". Let's help with this coaching with a little "creative officiating" off the field and pre-game as well.

ref18 Tue Aug 16, 2005 07:17pm

Re: Ankle monitors
 
Quote:

Originally posted by NoTrumpKing
Last year in Ky, we had a situation arise - similarly. In the Ky case he'd been convicted and was on home incarceration with scholl activities included. In our state a felony conviction precludes one from coaching, teaching or officiating. This included playing according to our Umpire at that game. This kid needs to get a life free of crime & miscreant behavior. The NFL mollycoddles too many criminals and that becomes model behavior for kids with talent & ability, but who have highly limited social skills. They need further "coaching". Let's help with this coaching with a little "creative officiating" off the field and pre-game as well.
+1

kdf5 Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:34pm

Just curious here but how are the authorities able to track someone who wears a monitor?

TXMike Wed Aug 17, 2005 04:38am

There are several variations of the equipment. In some cases, if the device goes outside a prescribed area, i.e. the home, it gets too far from a base station and an alert is sent to a monitoring station. Often the offender is allowed to leave but only with permission so he/she calls into an office, advises what they are going to do, and then go does it. If not back within a prescribed time, an alert is sent.

Another method uses a GPS and transceiver to send a signal to a monitoring station advising as to the location of the device, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The monitoring office records the route and then the offender's probation officer can see where the person has been. The location can also be seen immediately if they want to monitor real time.

Mark Dexter Wed Aug 17, 2005 09:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by TXMike
There are several variations of the equipment. In some cases, if the device goes outside a prescribed area, i.e. the home, it gets too far from a base station and an alert is sent to a monitoring station. Often the offender is allowed to leave but only with permission so he/she calls into an office, advises what they are going to do, and then go does it. If not back within a prescribed time, an alert is sent.

Another method uses a GPS and transceiver to send a signal to a monitoring station advising as to the location of the device, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The monitoring office records the route and then the offender's probation officer can see where the person has been. The location can also be seen immediately if they want to monitor real time.

Could make for one helluva way to keep track of a ball game.

WhistlesAndStripes Wed Aug 17, 2005 01:40pm

THe more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. If for some reason the kid is allowed to play and I'm on the field, the first time his head turns my way, I'm gonna swear there was an F-Bomb and throw his a$$ out.

Patton Wed Aug 17, 2005 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
THe more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. If for some reason the kid is allowed to play and I'm on the field, the first time his head turns my way, I'm gonna swear there was an F-Bomb and throw his a$$ out.
Whistles & Stripes, I sure hope that your ethics are much higher than that.

If the powers to be say he can play, should the officials really try to find a rule that would prevent him from doing so? I haven't seen what the thing looks like, but if it poses no danger to him or anyone else, is it really that big of an issue.

If not mistaken, we are innocent until proven guilty in this great nation...his trial is October 17.

[Edited by Patton on Aug 17th, 2005 at 03:16 PM]

Patton Wed Aug 17, 2005 02:36pm

Here's a link to a website I just found that has the full article and a picture of the ankle monitor.

http://www.strangepolice.com/content/item/109529.html

From what I have just read though, I'd be surprised if they allow him to play. The crime is more severe than I first realized, and he admitted it. However, I still stand by my previous post...if the powers to be say let him play, then wrap some foam around the monitor and let him play.

kdf5 Wed Aug 17, 2005 02:58pm

I think Whistles and Stripes is a bit out of line. If the governing authorities say he can play then he can play as far as I'm concerned. They make the big bucks deciding those issues. It's not up to us to penalize the kid or project our personal feelings or opinions, it's up to us to enforce the rules of football on the field. Therefore the ankle monitor becomes the only issue that I as an official should be concerned about. If someone wants to be a stickler and keep him off the field then I'd look at 1-5-3h...Metal which is projecting or other hard substance on clothes or person is illegal.

woolnojg Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:22am

Did you happen to catch the statements from the former coach?

Signed the transfer letter as ' moved for athletic puposes" when the kid was directed to live in the new district by the court.

Guess their ethics are so far removed froom what they say the new districts ethics are.

Kid has been charged and awaits trial. There has been no final disposition of this case. Depends on the trial.

KWH Thu Aug 18, 2005 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
THe more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. If for some reason the kid is allowed to play and I'm on the field, the first time his head turns my way, I'm gonna swear there was an F-Bomb and throw his a$$ out.
Public message to:<b>Whistles and Stripes</b>
The following are some excerpts from the Officials Code of Ethics found in the NFHS Officials Manual (2004/2005 edition Page 6):

<i>Officials at an interscholastic athletic event are participants in the education development of high school students. As such, they must exercise a high level of self-discipline, independence, and responsibility. The purpose of the Code is to establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct for all interscholastic officials.

<b>Officials</b> should uphold the honor and dignity of the profession in all interaction with student-athletes, coaches, athletic directors, school administrators, colleagues, and the public.

<b>Officials</b> should be mindful that their conduct influences the respect that student-athletes, coaches, and the public hold for the profession.</i>

As I said these are excerpts.
Perhaps you should consider reading the entire <b>OFFICIALS <i>Code of Ethics</b></i>, next chance you get!

[Edited by KWH on Aug 18th, 2005 at 02:26 PM]

NoTrumpKing Fri Aug 19, 2005 09:05am

Ankle Monitors
 
There's always something in the rule book that will allow us to do what we ( as Umpires & Refferees) want to do. Visit your ethics and apply the rules uniformly. In Ky., we may not officiate if convicted of anything more serious than 'minor' traffic offenses. Nor can we teach or be selected as administrators in school systems. Let's also not lose sight of the role of athletics & sport in our culture. Playing football (even in Texas) is not a right; it's an opportunity; and like all opportunities must be earned, but with a low threshold. Since at the time this issue arose, he was not yet convicted a set of options is different from those available had he been at that time convicted. Everything always goes back to knowing the rules, having values and being responsible for our actions.

Forksref Sat Aug 20, 2005 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
THe more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. If for some reason the kid is allowed to play and I'm on the field, the first time his head turns my way, I'm gonna swear there was an F-Bomb and throw his a$$ out.
I am glad you don't officiate in our area with that attitude. In our workshops we specifically are told that eligibility is not the jurisdiction of the officials. We are only here for the game, the game rules, etc. Let the administrators deal with those issues. And, BTW, we don't make up fouls in order to punish kids when we officiate. If I were still coaching and I got wind of your comment about making up the F-bomb foul, you'd never work in our league again. That reeks of unprofessionalism and outright cheating which is uncalled for by officials.

OverAndBack Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Redneck Ref
You see, Jackson is under house arrest until his trial on Oct. 17 trial on six counts of aggravated robbery.
If you're like me, I'm thinking the violent game of football is just what he needs in his life. :rolleyes:

Hey, I'm going to defer to the state on that one. If they say he can play, he can play. As an official, I'm not going to pass judgment on the kid from the 30 minutes before the kickoff until the referee signals the end of the fourth period or overtime, when our jurisdiction begins and ends.

But as a private citizen before and/or after that time, I'll bet you any money you like that my taxes are going to go up to build more prisons to house this kid and kids like him.


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