Sideline Warning?

[w_sohl]

To throw a flag or not to throw a flag, that is the question.

We had this discussion with a member of our crew on Saturday. He insists that on the WARNING you do not throw a flag because there is no yardage penalty assesed and that you would toss the flag on subsequent sideline infractions. The rest of the crew disagreed with him as we felt that the purpose of the flag is to indicate that an infraction has occured and has nothing to do with wether or not there will be penalty yardage assesed. If he is correct please cite reference so that I can see it with my own two eyes and relay the information to our crew chief.

[Warrenkicker]

I'll go with 9-8-3 of course being the main rule covering sideline interference. It lists the penalties include the first offense being a warning. Now we can't have a penalty with out a foul and it states that the warning is a penalty. So to have a foul we must have a flag to indicate that a foul was committed. So I say that all sideline warnings must be flagged or else they did not foul.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
I'll go with 9-8-3 of course being the main rule covering sideline interference. It lists the penalties include the first offense being a warning. Now we can't have a penalty with out a foul and it states that the warning is a penalty. So to have a foul we must have a flag to indicate that a foul was committed. So I say that all sideline warnings must be flagged or else they did not foul.

diddo!

[mikesears]

Originally posted by w_sohl
To throw a flag or not to throw a flag, that is the question.

We had this discussion with a member of our crew on Saturday. He insists that on the WARNING you do not throw a flag because there is no yardage penalty assesed and that you would toss the flag on subsequent sideline infractions. The rest of the crew disagreed with him as we felt that the purpose of the flag is to indicate that an infraction has occured and has nothing to do with wether or not there will be penalty yardage assesed. If he is correct please cite reference so that I can see it with my own two eyes and relay the information to our crew chief.

In Illinois, we have been instructed that our mechanic is to throw the flag for the warning.

[grantsrc]

According to the NFHS Officials Manual, you do not throw a flag on the warning. (2004 and 2005 Officials Manual, page 22, under Controlling the sideline and team box):

"II. First Violation by Team.
A. Results in a sideline warning.
B. Covering official sound whistle, give proper signal, then report infraction to referee.
C. Referee will give proper signal and indicate offending sideline.
D. Covering official echo signal (No. 15) while verbally informing coach of warning. Communication also should include reminder of distance penalties of further violations.
E. All officials record time and period warning is given.

III. Second Violation by Team.
A. Covering official will drop penalty marker, sound whistle, report infraction to referee.
B. Referee will give approved signals and umpire will assess distance penalty.
C. Covering official will verbally inform and remind coach that each subsequent offense will result in 15-yard penalty.
D. All officials record time and period penalty is assessed.

IV. Third and subsequent Violations.
A. Covering official will drop penalty marker, sound whistle, report infraction to referee.
B. Referee will give approved signals..."
You get the point.

My thoughts are, it's just a warning- not a foul. Last year I messed this up and threw the flag on a coach, which really made the situation worse. He thought he got nailed for USC, when really I was only issuing a sideline warning. Here in Missouri, we're fortunate that the state provides us with the NFHS officials manual when they publish them (every other year). Otherwise, without having this, I probably would've flagged him too.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by grantsrc
According to the NFHS Officials Manual, you do not throw a flag on the warning. (2004 and 2005 Officials Manual, page 22, under Controlling the sideline and team box):

Thanks, that is exactly, page and all, what he quoted but I could not locate my manual to verify.

[JasonTX]

Here in Texas we throw the flag. This seems to get the attention of the coaches a lot better than just simply giving a signal. We used to not throw the flag, but now that we do the results are much better.

[Edited by JasonTX on Aug 8th, 2005 at 05:28 PM]

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by grantsrc
My thoughts are, it's just a warning- not a foul. Last year I messed this up and threw the flag on a coach, which really made the situation worse. He thought he got nailed for USC, when really I was only issuing a sideline warning. Here in Missouri, we're fortunate that the state provides us with the NFHS officials manual when they publish them (every other year). Otherwise, without having this, I probably would've flagged him too.

So he thinks he's been hit with a USC. Before long, it is evident that in fact no distance will be applied, and that he has earned only a warning. The feeling he just had about costing his team real estate is only warranted if he is an idiot again. Could having experienced that feeling be called a deterance for futher inappropriate behavior?

[MJT]

I bet if you are not an R, you would not know the signal to "echo" it, as is stated in Grant's post. I have only given it once in all the years I have been an R. It is very uncommon.

[devdog69]

You've only given one sideline warning? Your crew does not know the signal? Hmmm...I probably give 2-3 per season, I use it and think it's a great tool. JMHO.

[MJT]

We really just don't have any problems with the sidelines. Good communication with the coaches and things have went smoothly so far. My wings are great over there with the coaches. Just lucky I guess.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by JasonTX
Here in Texas we throw the flag. This seems to get the attention of the coaches a lot better than just simply giving a signal. We used to not throw the flag, but now that we do the results are much better.

[Edited by JasonTX on Aug 8th, 2005 at 05:28 PM]

I agree, I'd rather throw the flag but my association follows the mechanics manual.

[bjudge]

In Utah, we throw the flag. We are told to wait until there is a dead ball and a break in the action to throw the flag. I think it makes more of a statement. Maybe only one or twice have I ever had to throw a second flag after I have already given a sideline warning.

We are told to either do it at the beginning of the game or dont do it at all. If you wait until the fourth quarter, it is too late.

[w_sohl]

Called our state, Indiana, representative and he said to follow the officials manual. NO flag on the warning, only when a yardage penalty will be assesed are we to throw a flag.