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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 09:11am
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Here's the play.
R makes a fair catch at his own 35. After that, A then throws a screenpass that gains all the way down to the 20 of B. On the tackle, B25 tackles A33 by the facemask. B is penalized half the distance to the 10 of B. A33 never leaves the field. However, he hangs out between the sideline and the 9 yard mark. After enforcement of the penalty, A then decides to free kick from B's 10 yardline. A33 still hasn't come back within the 9 yard marks and A/K kicks a successful FG through the uprights. Is A/K penalized? If so, what do you call it? Interested to see what you guys think. 
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 10:37am
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Quote:
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 11:16am
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"7-2-1 After the ball is ready for play, each player of A who participated in the previous down and each substitute for A must have been, momentarily, between the 9-yard marks, before the SNAP." and... "8-4-1a The field-goal attempt shall be a place kick or a drop kick from scrimmage, or from a FREE KICK following a fair catch, or an awarded fair catch." Your play describes a free kick that scores a field goal which does not include a SNAP. Would you penalize K if they came straight from their sideline before a free kick and went directly to their kickoff positions? No, because there is no requirement for player positioning during free kicks. The same would apply in this situation.
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 11:24am
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I agree 100%
Just wanted to see what you guys thought. It could sneak up on you in an exam where the writer of the exam is particularly sneaky. LOL... Anyway, thats exactly right.
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 11:54am
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I wouldn't have agreed with you until I read the rules again. When the NCAA put in their distance-from-the-sideline rule they included free kicks as well. But I guess that means that NF never had any proximity rule for participation on a kickoff. Sure does leave a great opportunity for a hide-out play on an onside kick.
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 02:35pm
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What ?
How in the world are they deciding to free kick? This field goal attempt would have to be a scrimmage kick and yes, I think you would penalize A33.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 02:52pm
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Last time I checked a fair catch meant a dead ball and the series began from that point, aka the 35 yd line. Therefore, the screen pass occurred on 1st down as did the run, as did the penalties which resulted from another first down after enforcement of the facemask penalty. Therefore, it WAS NOT after an awarded fair catch but after a scrimmage play.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 03:05pm
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DevDog, because the down is replayed following the penalty, team A still has the option after the fair catch of putting the ball in play with either a snap or a free kick. In this case, they chose the free kick this time instead of a snap. Hope that clears it up. Maybe someone can word it better than this.
Always happy to help a fellow member (based on your basketball signature).
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 03:13pm
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 03:15pm
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1) A makes a fair catch at his own 35. Boom, that play is over. 1st and 10 at the 35 for A. 2) On 1st down they throw a screen pass that goes to the B20 and there is a facemask which is a tack-on and takes it to the 10 yd line. It is now 1st and 10 for A there. 3) Now we have an illegal formation foul by A, penalized by a five yard penalty if accepted. 4) We cannot have a free kick after an awarded fair catch at this point because we had a play in between (screen pass play from scrimmage).
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 03:33pm
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Your doing great up until #4. On that one I will agree with you that a play has been run, the screen pass. However the down was not changed. It was replayed. Then even after the illegal formation it is still the first first-down following a fair-catch or awarded fair-catch. Thus A has the option still, even after possibly moving the ball 90 yards, of kicking a free-kick for a field-goal. All of the rules references are listed above.
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 03:43pm
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REPLY: devdog...the key to understanding this is in NF 6-5-4:
"ART. 4 The captain may choose to free kick or snap anywhere between the inbounds lines on the yard line through the spot of the catch when a fair catch is made or through the spot of interference, when a fair catch is awarded. These choices remain if a dead ball foul occurs prior to the down, or a foul or an inadvertent whistle occurs during the down and the down is replayed. Even though the down number may not be the same (because B's penalty took A past the line the gain), the down is still considered "replayed."
__________________
Bob M.
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Mon Jul 18, 2005, 04:01pm
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It is all beginning to hinge on whether this down is considered being replayed. I've read 6-5-4 and the case play 4.3.7, neither really help with that aspect, i.e., whether a tack-on penalty gives the offense a replay or just 15 more yards. 5-2-2 says 'the number of the next down is the same as that of the down during which the foul occurred unless penalty acceptance includes a first down or loss of down, or the enforcement or the advance results in a first down.'
Furthermore, 5-2-5 says 'Following a foul, a series of downs ends when: b. Acceptance or declination of any penalty leaves A in possession beyond the line to gain. That is where I am basing my feeling that the series has ended and a new one has begun after enforcement of the long run and penalty.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
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