It's a little slow in here so here's somthing to talk about.

You're out on the field doing NFHS rules and you've got some fan/coach/player yelling at you who is trying to apply NFL/NCAA rules or something thats not a rule in any code.

Let's see who's had the worst misconceptions and which ones occur the most....

Oh, where to begin?!?

There's always the favorite, "That pass was uncatchable!"
Or "They had 12 men in the huddle!"

How about this one among officials:

Offense holds behind the LOS on a pass play, so you "apply the all-but-one principle on that one." Along with that is "go with what hurts them the most" (sorry, that has become a pet peeve of mine).

Among coaches, there are too many to count. One would be (on a punt play) "he was downfield too soon."

What's wrong with that?

My favorite for the pass reception has always been "he only came down with one foot in bounds!"

My fan favorite - the two minute warning.

One more. I'm wondering what is wrong with that as well. Foul by the offense behind the basic spot is penalized from the spot of the foul. Basic spot on a loose ball play (pass) is the previous spot. So this one is the all-but-one.

I love when a player on the end of the line doesn't have an eligibile number. "Hey Mr. Official, Number 76 has to report."

You guys may very well disagree with an action I have taken in the past but it has worked very well. You could of course say I'm having a case of "rabbit ears." I don't make this a habit but when it's a coach I always say "no coach, that's the NFL." rather than ignoring him. It makes things so much easier.

Even when a fan does it if I'm within earshot of him/her and I'm on a wing (or even referee and I'm in a side zone facing the sideline) I don't hesitate to politely utter "that's an NFL rule." On the fan interaction I have only done that in midgets since the fence is right up on the field and it really does work. I do it quietly (without yelling that is) and again only when within an earshot of the fan who may be standing right there. It's not a habit but I have used that technique a couple of times.

REPLY: How about the "he was in the two-yard belt" on scrimmage kicks. They don't realize that it's no longer even an NCAA rule!

Had one this past season where a long field goal attempt rolled OOB at about the 6. We were marking it there when the fans on that side started yelling that it wasn't a punt so we couldn't put the ball there. It made me want to say to them that it was a punt to me.

As someone else stated- where to begin?

"He (the QB) can ground the ball (or throw it forward out of bounds)-he was outside of the tackles"

On a running sweep play- WR told me to throw a flag because the DB contacted him beyond the 5 yard chuck zone.

"Uncatchable pass" as I throw the flag for DPI

"He did not get both feet inbounds"

I have to say that my favorite came from a player in a varsity contest. The player was the ball carrier and made a break for the endzone and only had one defensive player to beat. Defensive player closes the gap, and forces him out of bounds by pushing him in the back. Offensive player gets up and starts yelling at me- "where's the flag". I say for what. He says "he clipped me".

See 10-6 in NF rule book. The enforcement spot is the previous spot for loose ball plays. (Had to look it up)

Now, what about like, a facemask behind the line while the QB is dropping back to pass, does that mean the foul occured during a "running play" since he has yet to throw the ball? I will have to check the case book.

You mean BASIC enforcement spot (for loose ball plays it is the previous spot). Fouls behind the basic spot by the offense are penalized from the spot of the FOUL.

Therefore, holding by the offense behind the previous spot on a loose ball play is penalized from the spot of the foul.

REPLY: grantsrc...and you're right that a facemask against the QB behind the line while he is dropping back to pass is a foul during a running play <b>unless</b> he subsequently throws a legal forward pass. Consider...<b>PLAY:</b> A, 3/10 from A's 20. QB under a rush scrambles to his 3 yardline where he is tackled by B55 who pulls him down by the face mask. <b>RULING:</b> B's foul occurred during a running play right at the end of the run. After enforcement, it will be A's ball, 3rd and 12 from A's 18. They actually lose yardage by accepting the penalty, but at least they get to replay the down. This is for Federation ball. The NCAA rule would enforce this penalty from the previous spot.

I had to take a time out for dinner with my wife. She really didn't appreciate me flipping through the rule/case books while driving to dinner. I found my answer in the case book. ANY foul on ANY loose ball play (pass, fumble, or kick) is enforced from the previous spot (10.4.2 Situation B Comment). This of course excluding any PSK rulings. All other action prior to the "loose ball" (pass, fumble, or legal or illegal kick) like the QB dropping back, or holding, or face masks or whatever, would still be treated as a loose ball play since loose ball followed. Thus the enforcement spot would be the previous spot.

On the other hand, if the foul occurs <b>AFTER</b> the loose ball play ends (completed pass, recovered fumble, end of kick), then it would be treated as if it were a run play. For example, completed pass, A88 runs and is tackled by his face mask. Loose ball play ends when A88 gains possession of the ball, thus all action after possession occurs during a "run play". Same situation as above, A88 catches a pass at A35. After the catch, A80 holds at A30. A88 runs to A40 where he is downed. The enforcement spot would be A30 since the holding foul was committed behind the basic spot, which is where the loose ball play ends- A35.

Wow, white hats, help a LJ out. Is that the correct ruling/interpretation according to Federation rules?