Stump the Chump -- the season's getting closer

[Bob M.]

Some pass plays to consider. NF and NCAA rules may (and sometimes do) differ. Not too difficult, just a means of keeping those football neurons firing during the off-season.

1. Play: Airborne receiver, who is moving downfield toward his opponent's goal line, gains control of a legal forward pass above his 48 yard line where a defender pushes him
(a) forward so that his first contact with the ground is out of bounds at the 50 yard line;
(b) backward so that his first contact with the ground is out of bounds at A’s 46 yard line
(c) Forward so that he lands prone inbounds at B’s 49 yard line
(d) backward so that he lands prone inbounds at A’s 47 yard line
(e) backward so that he lands on his feet at A’s 46 yard line. He runs to B's 45 where he is tackled.

2. Play: Airborne receiver, who is moving downfield toward his opponent's end line, gains control of a legal forward pass above his opponent's endzone where a defender pushes him
(a) backward where he lands prone at B’s 2 yardline
(b) forward where he lands beyond the end line
(c) backward so that he lands on his feet at B’s 1 yardline. He runs and is then tackled at B’s 2 yardline.
(d) Forward so that he lands out of bounds outside of B’s end zone

In each case, what is the result of the play and the succeeding spot?


[Edited by Bob M. on Jun 8th, 2005 at 09:14 AM]

[LJ845]

Great thought provokers. From memory I will try:

1(a) Incomplete pass if push was in the same direction as his motion.
1(b) Completed pass. Succeeding spot at A-48 (forward progress)
1(c) Completed pass. Succeeding spot at B-49
1(d) Completed pass. Succeeding spot at A-48 (forward progress)
1(e) Completed pass. Succeeding spot B-45

2(a) Touchdown if you believe he would have landed in the endzone.
2(b) Incomplete pass if push was in the same direction as his motion.
2(c) Again, touchdown if you believe he would have landed in the endzone. If you feel he would have landed in field of play, succeeding spot at B-2 (assuming he ran there and wasn't pushed back from the B-1).
2(d) Incomplete pass if push was in the same direction as his motion.

[LJ845]

Sorry- NF Rules

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Also going from memory here...

I'm going to disagree with LJ845 - I believe that NF rules say nothing about the direction of motion of the receiver. The only deciding factor is whether or not the official judges that the push causes the receiver to land OOB.

This is not to say that an official couldn't have the rule of thumb: same direction = would have been out anyway. But I'm pretty sure the rules do not force this interpretation.

That said, if the phrase "so that" means that the push directly caused the receiver to land where he did, then I've got completions in all cases.

1a) I'm not sure there's good rules coverage for this situation. I'm going to spot the ball where it crosses the sideline.

2b & 2d) I've got a TD.

2c) I'm always going to spot this at the B2. If he gets his feet back, then forward progress is generally not awarded - this is no exception.

The rest I agree with LJ845.

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Bob- For the sideline questions, don't we need to know which direction the receiver was moving when he became airborne?

[LJ845]

Roamin':

Until recently, I would have agreed with you 100%.

On a different forum, there is a discussion about pushing an airborne receiver in the same direction as his forward progress. The discussion references the 2004 Case Book, play 7.5.2-L part C. In the ruling it comments that "the added force in the direction the player was moving, is not considered a factor affecting his spot of landing"

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by AndrewMcCarthy
Bob- For the sideline questions, don't we need to know which direction the receiver was moving when he became airborne?

REPLY: Andrew...you are absolutely correct. I omitted that important piece of information. I actually thought about that this morning on my way to work. Thanks for pointing it out. I've edited my original post to include that.

[ljudge]

In 2C I would think if the ball is over the endzone when he is pushed back then TD.

If, once his feet touch the ground at the 1, the ball is ever over the plane of the goalline you also have a TD and he's simply running with a dead ball.