Huh?

Did anyone else read through that thread? I came away with a few questions and comments.

I thought a maze was a puzzle.

I thought a gaggle was a collection of geese.

What's a 'No Yards Penalty'?

What kind of game you playin up there?

In Canadian football, there is a five yard restraining zone around the first Team B player to touch the ball on any kick from scrimmage.

Only the kicker and any player positioned behind the kicker while the ball is kicked may be inside that 5 yard zone while the ball is touched. These players are referred to as "onside" players. Onside players may recover the kick, or may legally be within the restraining zone.

Any other player is considered "offside" If the offside player is in the restraining zone while Team B touches the ball, or if an offside player is the first person to touch the ball the resulting foul is called "no yards" It's a 15 yard penalty.

Now, in the CFL and OUA they have a bounce back rule that I'm not going to get into.

I hope that clears things up :D

The restraining zone rule is the rule that forcludes us from having a fair catch rule.

The bottom line to this rule in Canadian Football is that on a punt and FG try, the receiving team MUST play the ball uless it goes OB. They have no option to fair catch, and if they just leave the ball to roll around, as my fellow Canuck suggested, the kicker and any players that lined up behind him when the ball was kicked, are eligible to jump on the ball and if possession is gained, in most instances would see yards gained for 1&10. I think its a great feature of our game as I have to chuckle when I see five or six NFL bemoths carefully following the slowly rolling ball from the four to the three to the two etc...

On the unsuccessful FG try, the ball must also be played by the receiving team (they get this same five yard zone) unless it blasts through the end zone for the single point. If not, the receiving team can try and run it out, concede the single point (I LOVE the rouge!!) or even punt it back out again, which happens sometimes in the dying seconds of a tie game when a single point is critical. Many years ago I saw a Wpg vs Sask(?) game where the ball got punted back and forth four of five times with no time left on the clock...great fun to watch.

Further to the "no yards" rule, and with apologies for the length of this post, a couple of years ago my son's HS team went down to the San Diego area to play a US HS team in a semi annual exhibition match using US rules. The only rule issue our kids got into trouble with was the first time the US team punted the ball to us, and as the ball was coming down neither of our returners had signalled fair catch. Our coach quickly realized that their lives were in danger with the kicking team bearing down on them ready to time their hits, and he yelled to our kids, "SOMEBODY CALL FAIR CATCH!!", and one of the kids finally stuck his arm up, but not the kid who caught the ball, and we got a flag for that but we got out alive....kinda commical...

Where ya from, HH?

Edmonton (EFOA)

Anyone think we have enough Canadian football officials on the board to start up a new section dealing with Canadian Football??? Or do we still need to recruit a few more??

:cool:

That may be up to our American compatriots…are you Yanks getting’ sore necks from shaking your heads over some of our more “unique” rules yet?? LOL!

Cool. Do you guys have a website?

Did you go to the CFOA conference in 2004? If so, I may have met you.

I think a couple of guys are working on a site as we speak..will let you know when it's up. Great association, great bunch of guys and some excellent football in these parts especially with the Bears on the upswing this past season. They should make the Vanier for sure in '05!

Didn't make the CFOA this year but would like to go at some point in the future. Just finished my second year in stripes, lots of time to meet all you chuckleheads.....lol!

It's a game a lot closer to the Rugby rules that both our sports originated from :)

The reason that I started the thread in the first place is that it is legal for an onside player to recover and advance a scrimmage kick provided that some critical criteria are met.

In the course of doing that the differences between the two kicking games start to really come out. In particular, our rule book states that short kicks coming down into a crowd are to be killed in flight with the ball awarded to the receiving team where the ball hits the ground - not pro ball but CFL is to community ball as NFL is to federation bal.

HossHumard puts it well when he says that the receiving team must play the ball after a scrimmage kick. The 5 yard RADIUS 'halo' around the player is a restraining zone to ensure they get an opportunity to field the ball without getting pummled. Having said that, the same collection of restricted players who can recover and advance a scrimmage kick can be inside that halo (so...all B players and any 'onside' A players).

As for 'gaggle', I think it's a neat word and tend to group all kinds of things into 'gaggle' when I don't know what the proper plural form is.

eg. 'A Gaggle of Hillbillies'

Check out our site: http://www.wwcfoa.ca

I just want to say I can see that our Canadian officiating brethren put in as much time and effort and energy to their game as we do and I love their wide open game. I wish American football could adopt some of the Canadian game, but when it comes to your threads and posts I have to go right by them. Every time I read a Canadian post and I try to decipher Canadian rules I can't help but think of Dean Faber from Animal House and "double secret probation".

Fear not kdf5, once you get beyond the extra guy, the motion, the field size and the down, the games are basically identical. Fundamentals, from scoring (you guys down south should really think about the single point thing, it really spices up the game!) to blocking, tackling and field position..all the same.

I have often thought that the US game, NFL in particular, would really benefit most by incorporating the Canuck field size (110x65+20yd EZ) to give the many extraordinary athletes south of the border some room to move. It would be impossible to do that of course as no NFL club would ever agree to taking out even one seat, even if it made the game better, but I think it's a little like going back to your grade school and seeing the room and the desks and the water fountains in minature because you doubled in size. When you think about it, in Vince Lombardi's day an average lineman was 6'1', 230-250 and these days....yikes, anybody under 300 in the trench is considered a circus midget! And the skill guys...think of what they could do with some extra elbow room!

Just a thought.

BTW, yeah, Dean Wormer (Dean of Faber College) was a real SOB, but it was worth the trouble if you could get a few moments alone with Mrs. Wormer, eh?

I do think that a larger field to accomodate NFL athletes would open the game up but you and I know that will never happen for a bunch of reasons. To be honest, the NFL bores me to death for a number of other reasons. Give me a good college or HS game any day. Yeah, Mrs. Wormer was a hottie but a terrible driver and I already have two teens driving, I don't need her jacking up my insurance rates any higher than they are.

CFL Rules
 

I am a Canadian that learned to officiate in the US and then moved back to Canada. It has been tough to adapt to the old rules, seen in a new light. I have been surprised at how difficult it has been.

I love doing football, but I hate the Canadian rules (many in Canada consider this unpatriotic, but I consider it just my opinion). The single point spices up one player per year, and renders 100's per year as silly. The no yards rule is a disaster in HS, because the kids can't figure it out properly.

Most importantly though is the three downs. This, in HS, means that every game is a puntfest since teams have a hard time moving the ball 10 yards in 2 plays. So it goes, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, 60 yard TD run, punt, punt etc. I wish we had the 4 downs so that the kids would have a chance to learn the offence and work on their skills much more. No one on the field is learning during the fire drill known as the HS punt.

Having said all that, I still love being on the field. Even in less-than-ideal conditions (for me) it is a great time.

Re: CFL Rules
 

Glad to have you back.

If you hate the Canadian rules, then one might conclude that you hate the game. If that's so, then why don't you look to officiate something else.

If kids can't grasp the NY concept, then it is the coaches' fault. I've been officiating 10 year olds for 9 years now and they have no problem with it. As for the single point, you are very much in the minority. In fact, one might say that "you're the guy."

I don't believe that for an instant.

To be honest, you have the right attitude, but only 50% of it. The other 50% is realizing the beauty of the game and loving it.

I'm sorry that you haven't had a "good game" in awhile.

The glass isn't twice as big as it needs to be, nor is it half-empty. The glass is half-full. Maybe this is what you need to read:

http://www.wwcfoa.ca/docs/Mr%20Referee.pdf

Best Regards for a Merry Christmas, hab.

Hab, you're entitled to your opinion but I disagree heartily with it, echoing everything the "juggler" says.

But, on your contention that HS football is a "puntfest" and younger players can't get the NY rule, you're dead wrong. Period. 95% of punt plays I see from 6 year old to 26 year olds go off without a NY, and most of the infractions are not because a player dosen't understand the rule, but because he violates it.

"Puntfest"? Give me a break. A lousy offence is a lousy offence and nine downs isn't going to help some of them no matter which side of the border they're on.

Lastly, don't even get me started on the single point....

If one tries to play the Canadian game like the American game then there will be a LOT of two-and-out situations and it ruins the game (IMHO).

Since highschool ball came back to Kelowna I've noticed that the coaches have started to Americanize their play selection at the community ball level. There arefewer backs in motion, maybe a shifting player, we never see slots in motion, almost all the teams have gone away from onside players on scrimmage kicks, and fancy offside plays downfield have gone away. In fact, the following two situations happened this year:

1) A coach for a team of 10 year-olds (Canadian rules) had to be asked to leave because he was so hard on the officials. He decided to take in the games as a fan and berated the side official, calling myself a terrible official claiming that we 'didn't know a damn thing about the game of football' because we let the running backs go in forward motion prior to the snap - he was downright indignent. He was also asked to leave the park.

2) A coach for a team of 14 year olds went up one side of me and down the other because I let the kicking team advance a legally recovered free kick. I know nothing about NFL or NCAA so this may hold across the board, but at least in NFHS the same play would have been blown dead when the kicking team recovered.

And this was just games that I was working. This has all happened over the last 4 years. I don't actualy blame either game for what I'm seeing on the field. Coaches get their inspiration where they will. Due to the success of the CFL over the last year I expect to see a lot more exciting play locally in the Canadian rules since more coaches will see the plays that you can do in Canadian ball and will let the kids do some trick stuff that can be pretty exciting.

This problem is regional, incidentally. I don't think it's just regional to BC either where we have an obvious cause for the Americanization of the Canadian game. It is my opinion that the excitement of the Canadian game depends entirely on how much influence coaches get from the American game.

Importantly, it does the kids no favours [note the correct spelling of the word 'favour'] to be trying to plug a square peg into a round hole. There is prescious little we can do about that tho as officials.

That's my two bits on the matter.

You've got to enjoy the game to officiate it. If you don't enjoy it, then re-evaluate why you're officiating.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Canadian football.

One high school league in my area plays with 4 downs. When switching between the 2 leagues, you can see the game slow down. Having 3 downs speeds up the game, makes it more challenging and way more interesting.

And Mike, you should've seen the new poem they came out with this year, "Mr. Touch Referee" :D

Please, send it my way. I am actually going to re-publish the first poem to give credit to the author.

I found it uncredited a couple of years ago.

I'm actually trying to track down a copy now, it's more of a joke than anything. Just to give a bit of backround, touch football like mens league football. All the former players and some current pros play in leagues we do. I haven't touched the stuff yet.

But needless to say the poem starts off:

"Hello Mr. Touch Referee, how do you do?? I've been playing the game for years, I'm f**king smarter than you"

:cool: :D

Passionate Defence of Canadian Rules
 

WOW!

I am impressed by the passionate defence of Canadian rules. I respectfully disagree on many counts, but I really do respect your viewpoint, and more importantly, your passion.

I have one more concern about the development angle with the Canadian rules. There was a time when the Canadian game was unique enough to be considered almost its own sport. I don't think that is the case now. Therefore, we are training our kids to be minor league football players. I think we owe it to the kids to train them to become major league players (despite the incredibly long odds). The CFL can then do whatever it wants. They are their own thing.

Secondly, I wanted to address the "you should stop officiating" angle. There is a lot more to football than single points, NY, or backfield motion. I defintely prefer the NFHS rules, but on the balance it is still football and I still enjoy it a lot. Being frustrated with the rules I don't like are the product of loving what I do, not hating it.

I just go out there and do my thing, learn the Cdn rules better, and do a better job of the game whenever I can. When I am the field, my disagreement with rules does not matter, I call what the book says, and I work the game the way the book says. Off the field (and on message boards) I vent a little.

Canadian football is in good hands. Your passion is impressive.

Re: Passionate Defence of Canadian Rules
 

Why do you think the Cdn game is not unique, now?

You used the word 'therefore'. I don't see a correlation between whether or not the Cdn game has lost some of it's uniqueness and what the football playing goals of our children are. Please, explain your reasoning.

To be major league players, one might concede that the only league to play in is the NFL, and it seems that is what you're saying. I disagree. The CFL is just a viable league for considering a successful playing career. (Why is that? I would do ANYTHING to be a player in the CFL.)

If the Cdn game has lost it's uniqueness, then it is more like football played in the USA, in which case you'd figure that Cdn athletes have a better chance to succeed south of the border - they're more familiar with the American game.

You're frustrated with the rules because you like the Fed rules better. Again, I'm sorry but the message that you're sending is that the glass is half-empty.

Without a doubt the rules will change because the skill set of the players increases. The game has to change with the times. But I think a big part of the uniqueness of the Cdn game is our penalty application. It hasn't changed in a long time. At leat 40 years anyways. (I own a 1966 Cdn rulebook.)

Merci beaucoup. When I work my first Grey Cup, you can't imagine the emotion attached to my blood. The history: the men who have previouslly excelled at the same game I'm about to adjudicate. Damn, that's enough to bring a tear to a man's eye. At least I hope it is. It was when I did my first minor final, my first HS final, and my first provincial final.

hab in exile, where abouts in Canada do you officiate football?

Re: Re: Passionate Defence of Canadian Rules
 

So I was looking around Ebay tonight and noticed that you're probably also going to own a 1980 rulebook too. :D

That is unless there's another jugglingreferee around.

Re: Re: Re: Passionate Defence of Canadian Rules
 

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Hey:

Just to clarify on the development angle......

There is absolutely no shame in being in the CFL. None. The athletes are great and they play the game at a very high level. At the very least, they play football and get a paycheque every two weeks. Nice gig if you can get it, and very few can get it.

Having said that, almost by definition, the best player in the CFL is slightly worse than the worst player in the NFL. Some of the Canadian guys may have grown up dreaming of playing in the CFL, but not one of them would turn down a chance to playing on the biggest stage. Again, not because the CFL is bad, but because the NFL is better.

My arguement is that we are developing our kids to be the best of the second-best, rather than the best of the best. It would be like another sport developing their players with the goal of making it to the Pan Am Games. Pan Ams are awfully good, but everyone understands they are a step below the Olympics.

I also got asked where I officiate. I just moved, so I have not worked any games in the Ottawa area yet. My previous work was in Northern Alberta.

I would like to get better with the Cdn rules, as likely my lack of comfort is part of the problem. Thanks for keeping me on my toes guys.

I'll be in Ottawa in February at the level IV clinic! There are alot of great guys in Ottawa. Kevin, Barclay, Ross, Pierre, etc...

Just a question for any Canadian guys on the football forum.

I just bought Neil Payne's, Crime & Punishment : My Life as a CFL Official for a relative of mine who officiates football.

Has anyone read this book, and if so, is it any good???

I bought the book last year when I first got started and thought it was OK. Never gets too deep and rarely provides much in the way of insights, but its a good light read, especially for an official. I had no idea how long Neil had been in the game...he's in his late 60's I think..Yikes!

I am jealous. Seriously.

Better lock your door tonight because if you don't, I will steal the book.

It looks pretty interesting, I should grab a copy from the library for me to read, or wait until I find it on Ebay, but I think I'll have some competition in that auction ;).

You can also buy, as I did, on Amazon...try this link...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Does anyone know if Neil Payne is still with the CFL, as an evaluator?? Or is he retired from the league completely??

Hey Mike,

I got a letter of acceptance from Laurier today, I'm coming to officiate in your neck of the woods next year. :)

Congratulations, and great choice! I wish I went to WLU.

So you'll be living in Waterloo then... did you know that my position on the executive is Vice President (Waterloo). It's kinda like being the VP and Membership Support Officer (like what Steve Foxy does for OABO) in one.

So I will shape your career here in Waterloo. Just to let you know... it's not too late to buy your VP a gift! :D :D :D

I'll let the executive know about another new recruit!

Edit: Curious, what program will you be doing again? For HS games, they're Fri afternoons. I'm not sure if you'll want to do HS, or be available, or even have a car. If you can do HS games, there are 3 HSs nearby that you can get to by biking. But there are at least 3 refs that work near WLU. They could easily pick you up.

As the recruiter, my main goal is to find enough new officials (I think I have 5 or 6 new offiicals so far) to reduce the number of Thursday night games. (The school board wants to decrease Thu night gmes.)

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Dec 24th, 2004 at 08:47 AM]

If I go to Laurier, I'm taking business administration, although I'm still hoping to get into U of Waterloo. I did quite a bit of HS this year, and want to continue with that next year. What time are the Friday games usually at. I know this year, I've rearranged my schedule at school so I can referee, not everyone gets to go home at 1:30 ;) Hopefully I'll get lucky again next year. :D

One other thing, does anyone already wear #18 up there?? :cool:

I think 18 is available. :)

Games are at 1 and 3 if at the same school. 1 and 3:30 if at different schools. (30 minutes travel time.)

Once the time change happens, they go to 12 and 2 or 2:30, but that is usually only the last week of regular season.