Stump the Chump -- another installment

[Bob M.]

I'm going to be busy tomorrow at work, so I thought I'd add my week's contribution a little early. NCAA and NF answers are welcome. Please indicate what code you're using.

PLAY: 3rd and 5 from A’s 20. QB A10 is under a heavy rush when he throws a forward pass from his 12 yard line into an area unoccupied by any eligible Team A receivers. Tackle A79 catches the pass at A’s 15. He retreats to A’s 5 where he is tackled.

PLAY: On fourth down from their 20 yard line, Team A's punt barely crosses the neutral zone where it is untouched. B23, waiting for the ball to roll dead, is legally blocked above the waist by A64, causing B23 to touch the ball. In an attempt to get to the loose ball, A39 pushes B83 in the back above the waist, and A29 recovers and downs the ball at the Team A 27 yard line.

PLAY: A has the ball on their own 3 yard line. A2 is hit on his own 2 and fumbles the ball into the air. B4 bats the ball in flight toward the pylon at A's goal line. While the ball is in the air, airborne B7, running toward the pylon, controls the ball at the one yard line. (a) His momentum takes him across A's goal line and across the sideline, where he lands out of bounds in A's end zone, or (b) he crosses A’s goal line in the air, touches his foot in the endzone and then crosses the sideline.

[IAUMP]

Here is my attempt at these plays.

1) You have illegal touching @ A's 15, which I believe carries a 5 yard penalty from spot of touching. Since the lineman was downed at A's 5, B should decline the penalty and accept the results of the play. Thus, 4th and 20 @ A's 5.

2) A's ball 1st and 10 @ A's 27. No penalties on the play.

3) Illegal batting on B @ A's 2. Results in a)touchback for A 1st and 10 @ A's 20; b) 5 yard penalty on B, B's ball 1st and Goal on A's 7.

Remember the 2004 season was my first so don't be too hard on me if I'm wrong.

[IAUMP]

I should point out that I was using NF code.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by IAUMP
Remember the 2004 season was my first so don't be too hard on me if I'm wrong.

REPLY: We'll remember that...

[cdnRef]

NF

After reading CAREFULLY this time...

1) Intentional grounding. I presume this was the intent of the scenario. Pass elgibility rules apply only to legal forward passes. Options to B. Accept the foul and knock off 5 yards from the spot of the pass and lose a down making it 4th/18 from the A 7 OR decline to accept the results of the play leaving 4th/20 from the A 5.

2) The touching by B is ignored because B23 was blocked/pushed into the ball. Further to that, because A recovered the kick on ignored touching the ball becomes dead at the A 27. The remaining question is what to do about the foul. I suppose the option is to B. Take the ball on your opponent's 27 or we move them back 10 and do 4th down again from their 10.

3)Players of either team are allowed to bat a pass or fumble in flight. It wasn't entirely clear to me if B was in-bounds when he crossed the goal line in (a). If he was, touchdown in either case. If not, B's ball 1/10 somewhere on about the A 1 in (a) and touchdown in (b). Possession of a live ball in the opponent's end zone is always a touchdown.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Bob M.
I'm going to be busy tomorrow at work, so I thought I'd add my week's contribution a little early. NCAA and NF answers are welcome. Please indicate what code you're using.

PLAY: 3rd and 5 from A’s 20. QB A10 is under a heavy rush when he throws a forward pass from his 12 yard line into an area unoccupied by any eligible Team A receivers. Tackle A79 catches the pass at A’s 15. He retreats to A’s 5 where he is tackled.

PLAY: On fourth down from their 20 yard line, Team A's punt barely crosses the neutral zone where it is untouched. B23, waiting for the ball to roll dead, is legally blocked above the waist by A64, causing B23 to touch the ball. In an attempt to get to the loose ball, A39 pushes B83 in the back above the waist, and A29 recovers and downs the ball at the Team A 27 yard line.

PLAY: A has the ball on their own 3 yard line. A2 is hit on his own 2 and fumbles the ball into the air. B4 bats the ball in flight toward the pylon at A's goal line. While the ball is in the air, airborne B7, running toward the pylon, controls the ball at the one yard line. (a) His momentum takes him across A's goal line and across the sideline, where he lands out of bounds in A's end zone, or (b) he crosses A’s goal line in the air, touches his foot in the endzone and then crosses the sideline.

Here is my take off the top of my head for NF.
Play 1: We have 2 fouls, one for intentional grounding and one for illegal touching. Both are loss of down but the intentional grounding is a better case for B. The IG would be a loss of 5 yards from the end of the run (spot of pass), so 4-18 from the 7 yard line. The IT would be a loss of 5 yards from the spot of touching, so 4-15 from the 10 yard line. Best case is decline both penalties and it will be 4-20 from the 5 yard line.

Play 2: The forced touching by B23 is ignored. The kicking team downs the ball at the 27 yard line, so it will be R’s ball at the 27 yard line.

Play 3: The batting is legal cuz it is a fumble in flight. It is NOT a new force by B, cuz the ball did not cross the goal line as B7 recovered it first. In situation (a) player B did not ever recover the ball inbounds, since he does not come down inbounds after recovering the ball while in the air at the 1 yard line. Since he did not come down inbounds A is still responsible for the ball and it will be a safety. In (b), since B7 controlled the ball and touched his foot down in the EZ, it is a touchdown for B.

TWIST: if in play 3, B bats it across the goal line where his teammate controls the ball in the air, but does not come down until he is OOB’s. What do you have now???

[MJT]

Bob, please post this on the McGriff's board as well. You, Big Ump, and I need to post our questions on both boards. McGriff's is slow on the questions right now.

[schmitty1973]

NF: 1. The illegal touching becomes Offensive pass interference, penalize half the distance from 15 yd line (spot of first touching) and it's 4th Down. Or B could decline the penalty and make it 4th down from the 5.



[Edited by schmitty1973 on Dec 15th, 2004 at 11:51 PM]

[MJT]

Originally posted by schmitty1973
NF: 1. The illegal touching becomes Offensive pass interference, penalize half the distance from 15 yd line (spot of first touching) and it's 4th Down. Or B could decline the penalty and make it 4th down from the 5.



[Edited by schmitty1973 on Dec 15th, 2004 at 11:51 PM]

The illegal touching is NOT pass interference cuz the touching is "behind" the NZ. If the ineligible receiver touches the ball "beyond" the NZ, then we would have OPI, but this is not the case here. NF table 10-5.

[AlexH]

NCAA

1. 4th and 20 from As 5 yardline.

2. Penalty accepted: As ball 4th from As 10 yardline.
Penalty declined: Bs ball 1st and 10 from As 27 yardline.

3. As ball on As 18 yardline.

[Base]

I agree with AlexH, but may be I´m thinking too much about it.
What does "legally blocked above the waist by A64" mean? 9-3-3-e-3 says, that A-player can use hands to push an opponent only when he is eligible to touch the ball (or to ward off an opponent who is attempting to block him in ..e-1). So eigher both of Team A´s players´ action are illegal or none of them.

Here's what I have:

1) play - A 4-20 @ A5
pen - A 4-15 @ A10

2) B 1/10 @ A27

3) I am not sure if I am reading this question right or not:

Touchdown for B (A&B)....I hate a & b parts to question! I like one question!