I just received a cell phone call about a play that just happened 5 minutes ago in a championship midget game asking if the officials made a proper ruling.

A's has a long run down to B's 2 yard line. A fumbles at the 2 and the ball rolls into B's end zone where B illegally kicks the ball over the endline.

Ruling: If foul declined, result of play would be a touchback since A provided the force. If the penalty is accepted it would NOT be a safety, but rather A's ball 1st and goal at the 1 yard line. I agreed with that because B fouled while A was still in team possession of the ball so enforce from the end of A's run.

I had to think about that for a minute as my initial thought was safety. Then I got to thinking if B had possessed the ball (and it became dead in the EZ) and fouled in the endzone then it would be a safety because it would be a foul behind the basic spot (the 20). But in this case B fouled while A had the ball during a running play. If team possession had changed I would rule safety.

I just want to double check on both situations for my own sanity.

Now see, this is what happens when you start thinking too much. :>)
It is indeed going to be A's ball at the 1. This was a foul during a loose ball following a run (not a loose ball play). The basic spot is the end of the related run.

Whew. Jim, you know me without knowing me. That's not the first time someone has said that to me. Thanks for the quick reply.

Canadian Ruling
 

In Canada, B's kick is not illegal. The kick going OB results in a safety. No other options.

EDIT: I will have to re-visit the reply concerning the Canadian ruling. I shall do so soon.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Nov 28th, 2004 at 10:15 PM]

Would the ruling be same, if all things are as describted, but: fourth down and goal?
Does AR 8-7-2-IX-b apply?
Thanks

Hey, ljudge, when I first responded to your question I knew there was something wrong. You stated "If foul declined, result of play would be a touchback since A provided the force"
Not necessarially true. If no one was in player possession of such a ball when it is declared dead it would be a TD for A.

The ball didn't become dead in the EZ. It was kicked over the endline so it would have to be a TB if the foul was declined. Your scenario is valid and a good one to think about however. It would definitely be a TD if the ball became dead in the EZ with no player in possession b/c team A is still in team possession.

REPLY: Base...it appears that all the ruliings so far have been Federation. Your question highlights a difference between Fed and NCAA on fourth down fumbles. Your cited AR would prevail for NCAA.

Yes, I forgot to mention it.
So: NCAA rules, Team A´s 3rd&goal on B´s 10. Team A fumbles at 2 and loose ball is kicked form the EZ over the goal line by Team B.
What is the ruling?
-3th down on B´s 1 for A if accepted (rule 5-2-9)
-TB if declined (rules 8-6-1-a and 8-7-2-b-1-exc)
?
And what would the ruling be, if this happens on fourth down? I mentioned AR 8-7-2-IX-b, but as the penalty would half the distance to the goal, Team A would still be short of gaining first down, so Team B´s ball at their own one-yard line?
Please do not try to compare it with Fed (or other) rules, as I know nothing about them
Thank you for answer

3rd not 3th down, but I think, you noticed that English is not my native language:-)