illegal forward handing

[hobbes]

This play was recently covered on this board, but under illegal forward pass. This is what happened last night in our Middle school game. Thanks to this board, myself and our WH had read the thread on this and were able to sort it out (I think we got it right anyway). My question is about my mechanics of the play as LJ.

0-0 game. A has the ball 3rd and goal from B's 9 with 7 seconds to go. A1 runs a sweep to my side and breaks a couple tackles, gets to the two and starts to get tackled but still moving forward. As A1 struggles, A2 steps in front of him and takes the ball from him at the 1 and backs into the end zone. Myself (LJ) and the WH drop a flag at the 1. The WH very clearly explains to the B captain that if he declines the penalty, they will lose since time had run out, or he can move them back 5 yards to the six with one more play. A decides to try a field goal and misses. 0-0 tie since this was a middle school game and the league doesn't play OT. Very fun ending and glad we had read about Illegal forward passing at the end of a quarter. It ended up being very confusing for the fans and coaches.

My question about the mechanic is whether or not I should signal TD or not after dropping the flag, or just stop the clock (which had run out)? MY feeling is that I should have given the TD sign.

[Patton]

Yes, you should go ahead and signal the TD, even though you know that it's going to come back.

[Middleman]

Ask yourself this question: "What happened that caused the play to end?"

It was the ball in player possession entering the opponents' end zone. That's a touchdown, that's what should be signalled.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by hobbes
My question about the mechanic is whether or not I should signal TD or not after dropping the flag, or just stop the clock (which had run out)? MY feeling is that I should have given the TD sign.

Yes give the TD signal, it might not be going back, B might want to decline it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by hobbes
This play was recently covered on this board, but under illegal forward pass. This is what happened last night in our Middle school game. Thanks to this board, myself and our WH had read the thread on this and were able to sort it out (I think we got it right anyway). My question is about my mechanics of the play as LJ.

0-0 game. A has the ball 3rd and goal from B's 9 with 7 seconds to go. A1 runs a sweep to my side and breaks a couple tackles, gets to the two and starts to get tackled but still moving forward. As A1 struggles, A2 steps in front of him and takes the ball from him at the 1 and backs into the end zone. Myself (LJ) and the WH drop a flag at the 1. The WH very clearly explains to the B captain that if he declines the penalty, they will lose since time had run out, or he can move them back 5 yards to the six with one more play. A decides to try a field goal and misses. 0-0 tie since this was a middle school game and the league doesn't play OT. Very fun ending and glad we had read about Illegal forward passing at the end of a quarter. It ended up being very confusing for the fans and coaches.

My question about the mechanic is whether or not I should signal TD or not after dropping the flag, or just stop the clock (which had run out)? MY feeling is that I should have given the TD sign.

Please tell me about the rule that talks about offside passes and/or handoffs.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Please tell me about the rule that talks about offside passes and/or handoffs.

NF Rules:

Backward handoffs and passes are always legal. Forward handoffs and passes beyond the NZ are illegal, resulting in a 5-yard penalty and loss of down.

There are other restrictions as well. The rule states that forward handoffs are legal if both players are in/behind the NZ and the handoff is to either: (a) a back or end (can't be the snapper or next to the snapper), or to (b) an interior lineman that is at least a yard behind the NZ and facing backward when he receives the handoff.

Forward passes are illegal when: (a) beyond the NZ, (b) after a change of possession, (c) when there are no eligible offensive receivers in the area, OR (d) when thrown solely to save a loss of yardage or time. NF rules do have an exception that allow a QB to immediately spike the ball if he was lined up under the center.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by The Roamin' Umpire

NF Rules:

Backward handoffs and passes are always legal. Forward handoffs and passes beyond the NZ are illegal, resulting in a 5-yard penalty and loss of down.

There are other restrictions as well. The rule states that forward handoffs are legal if both players are in/behind the NZ and the handoff is to either: (a) a back or end (can't be the snapper or next to the snapper), or to (b) an interior lineman that is at least a yard behind the NZ and facing backward when he receives the handoff.

Forward passes... clipped

A forward pass is usually defined as the point of termination being closer to the opponent's goal than the point of origin. Is this true in Fed?

A lateral pass is usually defined as the point of origin being closer or equal to the opponent's goal than the point of termination. Is this true in Fed?

So the spots of interest are the points of origin and termination.

What are the spots if interest in a handoff? Are they also the points of origin and termination?

[bigwes68]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee


A forward pass is usually defined as the point of termination being closer to the opponent's goal than the point of origin. Is this true in Fed?

A lateral pass is usually defined as the point of origin being closer or equal to the opponent's goal than the point of termination. Is this true in Fed?

So the spots of interest are the points of origin and termination.

What are the spots if interest in a handoff? Are they also the points of origin and termination?

I think you scared everyone off with the big words. The way it is described in Fed is that if the initial direction of a pass is toward B's end line, it is a forward pass. If the initial direction of a pass is parallel to or away from B's end line, it is a backward pass.

The key is "initial direction." If it is a windy night, and a pass is blown forward that, at its origin, was backward, it is still a backward pass.

The same principles apply in forward/backward handing. If the ball is handed toward B's end line, it is forward handing. If it is handed parallel to or away from B's end line, it is backward.

"Lateral pass" and/or "lateral handing" are not defined in Fed. By rule, it's either forward or backward, nothing else. If it's "lateral," it's backward.