And we need to reduce the opportunities for blanks stares. We get enough of them!

And so...
 

The captain's options are to kick, receive, defend a goal or defer his choice and if all officials would give them these choices and we have uniformity among the officials in what they ask and the captains cannot get it right I suggest the coaches get new captains not modify the options into 3 or 4 four different choices. Herein lies some of the problem. Lack of uniformity among officials again can lead to confusion among the captains. Our officials are required to have coaches come to our captains meetings so if there is any confusion by their captains they are right there to hear the reason for the confusion. There is only the captain to blame.

Re: And so...
 

No, the options are to receive, defer to the second half, kick, and defend a goal

:)

my two cents worth
 

Here is my little speech

1. Gentleman step in and please introduce yourselves.

2. "Team X" you are my visitors this evening you will call the coin flip. I then show both teams the coin I am flipping and explain to them which is heads and which is tails.

3. Team X captain states what his call will be and then I repeat it so 1. he can confirm it and 2. the home team knows what he has called.

4. Flip and show the results to each team.

For this purpose we will say the Team X won the coin flip.

5. I then state "Team X" you have won the toss and your options are as follows.

1. You may defer to the second half

2. You may kick or recieve

or 3. You may choose a goal to defend.

Usually as most of you run into they say right away what they want and I do not get out all of my speech.

I think we can all agree that 95% of the time or more the winners will choose to 1. Defer or 2. Receive.

If it is something different I will politely say let me explain all 3 so we get it correct.

After that give them sportsmanship speech and wish both teams good luck.

I know of a game where the captain for one of the teams (Team B) was not a mensa candidate. He lost the toss, and the other team's captain said "We defer." Team B's captain then got all agitated and yelled "That's not right! We're de Furr, ya'll are the Kashmere".

His school was Furr high school, and he thought the other captain was electing to play on his team.

First year official and I dont think they even make a white hat that would even come close to fitting my head, however, 3 pages on a coin toss seems, well...silly. So... I went to the officials manual and had to look for myself what the book says.
Under coin toss they tell you that the choices to be given are:
(1)Kick or receive
(2)Defend a goal
(3)Defer to the second half

Cant understand what else needs to be said. The captains have a responsibility to know what to do, that is why they are a captain.

Give them the choices, let them answer, and play ball.

Geesh

Yup, first year officlal. Yup, the manual spells everything out.

Wait until you throw on the white hat on a Friday night and the captain says kick instead of defer. Then accept the captain without questioning what he means.

Then see what your relationship is with the team that now has to kick off twice. Of course you'll be fine in the first half until you tell them that they get to kick again in the second half. I guess you'll have showed them just how smart you are and how stupid they are.

Remember the Phil Luckett incident in the NFL game a few seasons ago? Phil, by the book, was completely right in what he did. Did it help him during the game and in the post-game opinion of him?

I am a control freak when it comes to the coin toss. Many officials catch the coin in the air -- I don't -- I let it hit the ground like the guys on TV. I also make sure the teams get what they want, for 3 reasons: (1) It's going to affect the rest of the game and may influence my relationship with the league, school, etc., and (2) it's what everyone expects and is the right thing to do, and (3) I don't have a microphone on us showing the world that the kid screwed up. It would be a pretty hard sell to anyone that a team wanted to kick off both halves unless they specifically wanted to do so. It doesn't happen often enough.

But other referees can do what they want. I WH every Friday night and will continue to be preventive -- if there's going to be problems, I'd like them to happen AFTER the game starts.

No reason to close any thread, either.

Question?
 

Rich, am I missing something? I don't quite understand your response to my post?

The Bottom Line
 

The Bottom Line is this:
If you want to change a rule, including eliminating a coin toss option listed in Rule 3-2-3a, there is a procedure to do so.

1) Any official may submit a proposal for a rule change to the NFHS via your state association on the proper form.
2) ALL proposals are listed on the proposed rule change list for all committee members (and other interested parties) to review.
3) In January, at the rules committee meeting, all proposals are assigned to one of the four committees for review. The committes are safety, editorial, rules, and mechanics.
4) If a proposal makes it through committee, it is introduced on the the floor for a vote.
5) If a proposal passes with by a majority of the floor vote, it is written into the rules for the following year.

<i>Note: Last year in Phoenix, 9 of the 65 proposals passed and were introduced as new rules in 2004.</i>

<b>No official, has the authority to eliminate a rule!</b>

<b>NFHS Rule 3-2-3a</b> <u>clearly</u> defines the captains options for each half!
NFHS 3-2-3...The winner of the toss shall have first choice of options for the first half or defer and have first choice for the second half. The loser shall have the first choice of options for the half the winner of the toss did not select. The options for each half <b>shall</b> be:
a. To <b>choose</b> whether his team will <b>kick</b> or recieve.
b. To choose the goal his team will defend.
The captain not having the first choice of options for a half shall excersise the remainin option.

Since the NFHS used the word <b>shall</b>, officials are <b>required</b> to offer the captain all of his options!

Nuff said!

Rich... I can understand your point, but why not cover this issue with the head coach before the game, let him know what you expect when he sends someone out there. I guess my other suggestion would be is if we need to be that careful (controlling), why not just do the coin flip with only the coaches before the game somewhere, that way there is are mistakes made unless its by the man himself.

Re: The Bottom Line
 

Required? C'mon. I don't see the NFHS signing my checks.

I have never seen a chain clipped at the goalline on a first and goal. Anyone do that? IT'S REQUIRED, after all since it's in the manual.

Get real.

Re: Question?
 

I'm saying that you provide all the options, but in a different order is all.

Not sure.......
 

Not sure that I agree with some of these statements: "Remember the Phil Luckett incident in the NFL game a few seasons ago? Phil, by the book, was completely right in what he did. Did it help him during the game and in the post-game opinion of him?"

I think the press would have crucified him if he didn't let them have what they had asked for after the flip.

"I am a control freak when it comes to the coin toss. Many officials catch the coin in the air -- I don't -- I let it hit the ground like the guys on TV. I also make sure the teams get what they want, for 3 reasons: (1) It's going to affect the rest of the game and may influence my relationship with the league, school, etc., and (2) it's what everyone expects and is the right thing to do, and (3) I don't have a microphone on us showing the world that the kid screwed up. It would be a pretty hard sell to anyone that a team wanted to kick off both halves unless they specifically wanted to do so. It doesn't happen often enough."

When I am working a high school game, we are big not little and after they make their choice I just don't see where it is my job to coach them to a decision. As far as my relationship with the teams for the rest of the game, the league and the school, if this affects my relationship then I have no relationship in the first place. I don't think it is fair to the other team if the team that wins the toss screws up their choice and I fix it for them because of their ignorance. Some teams send out four captains and they should probably pick their spokesperson on the basis of grade point average instead of popularity or "me football player" mentality.

Re: Not sure.......
 

AGREE. I had one last year where the captain messed up. As the coach and team were going to the locker for the last few minutes before kickoff, the coach said, "We screwed up didn't we!" I said, "yep." No problem, just a learning situation. I still contend that coaches need to coach the coin toss better with these kids.

Big difference between the RULE BOOK and the Officials Manual
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Required? C'mon. I don't see the NFHS signing my checks. I have never seen a chain clipped at the goalline on a first and goal. Anyone do that? IT'S REQUIRED, after all since it's in the manual. Get real.

All writings in the NFHS Officials Manual are <b>recommended procedures!</b> (Officials Manual - <u>inside flap</u>)
The officials manual uses words such as <b>encouraged</b> and <b>recommended.</b>
Examples would include: the <b>recommendation</b> (Page 74, III-E 1&2) that (in a first and goal situation) the Head Linesman place a clip on the chains at the intersection of the goal line prior to removing the chains from the sideline. (This recommendation, like all other recommendations contained within the Officials Manual, comes from <u>experianced, knowledgeable, and seasoned</u> <b>veteran officials.</b>)

All writings in the NFHS Rule Book are <b>Rules.</b>
When <b>shall</b> is used anywhere within the binders rule book, I interpet <b>shall</b> to be equivalant to <b>required.</b>
Likewise, when <b>required</b> is used in the rule book I interpet <b>required</b> to be equivalant to <b>shall</b>.
Examples would include NFHS Rule 3-2-3 ...The options for each half <b>SHALL</b> be:
a) To choose whether to <b>kick</b> or recieve...

One closing thought -
While the NFHS may not sign your paycheck,
the NFHS does <b>require</b> you to buy their rule book, <u>every year</u>!!!

Nuff said!