Jim's Test Question #3

SJoldguy · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 04, 2004, 11:37pm

This comes from a discussion in our 2nd year cadet class of the NJFOA. We were reviewing last weeks' test when the discussion turn to the question at the end of this paragraph. The test question is typical of what we give to the cadets for 13 weeks a year for 2 years.

Test Question: After a 5 yard penalty Team K is attempting a try for point from the R8. R1 roughs the kicker, the kick is good, after the play R2 punches K2 , then R3 uses profanity to the officials. What are the options for K?

Answer: There are 2 ways to accept the penalty.

K can accept the live ball penalty for roughing the kicker, then the 2 deadball fouls and retry from the R1.

or

K can accepted the roughing the kicker on the ensuing free kick, then accept the 2 deadball fouls. The free kick would then be from the R15 yardline.

DQ both R2 and R3 in both cases.

We then started to discuss the free kick. All the cadets realized that it is largely likely that an onside kick is coming. If the kick goes into the EZ: Touchback. Result of the play. Kick stays in bounds but doesn't go 10 yards: R's ball. THEN IT HAPPENED!! WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS FOR R IF THE KICK GOES OUT OF BOUNDS UNTOUHED BY ANY PKAYERS ON THE R 4 YARDLINE? My fellow instructor and I agree on 2 of the options but disagree on the third. Your thoughts????

Snake~eyes · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 04, 2004, 11:59pm

Two ovious are R's ball at OOB spot, 5 yard penalty and rekick and I'm thinking the third is R's 20 yard line. What is your thinking?

biglaz · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 12:25am

On any freekick out of bounds untouched by R etc etc... there are three options:

5 yard penalty from previous spot and rekick
R's ball at OOB spot
R's ball 25 yards beyond the previous spot

If K is kicking from R's 25 or closer to R's end zone, the third option is no longer available, as 25 yards would place the ball inside the end zone.

cowbyfan1 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 01:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by biglaz
On any freekick out of bounds untouched by R etc etc... there are three options:

5 yard penalty from previous spot and rekick
R's ball at OOB spot
R's ball 25 yards beyond the previous spot

If K is kicking from R's 25 or closer to R's end zone, the third option is no longer available, as 25 yards would place the ball inside the end zone.

you are right on the first 2 but like with any foul going to the end zone it will be half the distance. R's ball 1st and 10 at the 7.5...

biglaz · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 09:48am

Quote:

you are right on the first 2 but like with any foul going to the end zone it will be half the distance. R's ball 1st and 10 at the 7.5... [/B]

Sorry, but you're incorrect. At least for NFHS.

10-1-5
Enforcement of a penalty cannot take the ball more than half the distande from the enforcement spot to the offending team's goal line. If the prescribed penalty is greater than this, the ball is placed halfway from the spot of the enforcement to the goal line.

K is the offending team, and the ball is being moved towards R's goal line. Half the distance does not apply.

mcrowder · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 10:24am

I don't think you can give TB as an option. The 3rd option is either nullified or offers K the right to take a safety, which I assume they would not take, although it's conceivable in exactly the wrong situation late in the game, I suppose.

This may be one of those extremely rare situations that are not actually in the book, and require the application of a little common sense. And I would even admit that if you do give the option of a touchback, I can see how you might get there via "common sense"... I just wouldn't get there myself.

Patton · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 10:29am

I like Snake~eyes thought of the ball at the 20. Since placing it 25 yards from the free kick line would put it in the endzone...I say that would result in a touchback. However, I'm not sure what rule I could use to fully support that.

Bob M. · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 03:27pm

REPLY: Biglaz is correct. The third option essentially is immaterial. Awarding the ball to R 25 yards in advance of the previous spot is not an award of penalty yardage. It's simply a means of determining the succeeding spot. R only has the other two optioins in this case.

Jersey Ref · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 05, 2004, 11:59pm

We all agree on two of the answers while there is no case for this I believe that the third is the ball would be carried into the end zone by the fact of the 25 yard rule from the spot of the kick. There is no half the distance becauce this is not a foul by R. It would be a touch back just the same as if the kick had gone into the endzone. When you would count the yardage off from the spot of the kick it would end in the end zone giving you a touch back. I can not see any other ruling as we don't have the right to change the rules any free kick becoming dead in the end zone is a touch back. is the not the same thing when you access the yardage of 25 yards?

biglaz · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 06, 2004, 12:20am

While a touchback may sound like a good idea, there is no rule which would allow for this. The kick became dead when it went OOB.

mcrowder · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 06, 2004, 07:53am

I'm arguing this with one of the rule guys in my area as well. He says TB, I say the 3rd option goes away. I keep going back to the very short section that says - it is a touchback when... and there are 3 options. This scenario does not fit into any of the three.

SJoldguy · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 06, 2004, 08:52am

I started this thread and I am not sure of it's conclusion. Either the 3rd option is moot in this case or the ball is in R's possesion behind the goal line for presumally a Touchback. Does anyone know how to send this to the NFHS to get an official interpretation?