long snaps

dallas · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 22, 2004, 09:21pm

what is the rule about what you can or can not do to the center during long snaps ?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 22, 2004, 09:26pm

You can't charge directly into him. (NF 9-4-5)

rdfox · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 22, 2004, 10:03pm

bktballref is technically correct but there is more.

The snapper is no longer the snapper when either; a) he has had a reasonable opportunity to regain his balance and protect himself, or b) he himself blocks someone, or c) he moves to participate in the play (2-20-14).

Most R's and U's interpret this to mean that you can't hit him in the back or in the back of the helmet while he's looking between his legs (even if he holds the pose) but can hit him from the front if he looks back up.

At any time, R1 can charge by him in the gap between him and the guard, even if it means a glancing blow while he is looking between his legs.

jjb · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 23, 2004, 04:00am

I had a Freshman game last week. I was linesman. Game is 6 -6 late in 4th quarter. 4 & 10 for K. R's line is stacked for a block. From the looks of it , they are going up the middle for the block. The nose guard was fired up before A's huddle broke. I am watching the center and he is looking back at the kicker . (On previous punts he watched the ball sail to the kicker and the R team looked like they were more concerned with runback ) . Anyway, I blow my whistle and indicate officials time out. I trot to the ball and remind the R line that the snapper is protected and keep away from him until he pickes his head up. I know I just prevented a flag because of the expression I saw on the nose guard. I blew the official time out to prevent the injury. If I was wrong for interupting the game to "coach" so be it. If the center would have ended up injured , I would have blamed myself. At Varsity level I would have let the play go . Some R coaches and parents were upset.

jumpmaster · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 23, 2004, 07:56am

JJB - I think you did the right thing. Where was your U? On my crew, this is something that he is constantly telling B when the situation calls for it.

What is the NCAA rule on this situation, a la LSU vs Auburn?

Dommer1 · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 23, 2004, 08:56am

They were upset? Because you helped them not to foul? They should be thanking you, but that would require some insight that they obviously lack (I'm sooo surprised).

In NCAA, if A is in a scrimmage kick formation, B can not initiate contact with the snapper until 1 second has gone by. However, if you try to go through the gap, the contact would probably not be a foul. It's a huge penalty, so you better make sure that it's there.

mikesears · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 23, 2004, 10:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by jumpmaster
a la LSU vs Auburn?

The call in that game was not for roughing the snapper. The call was the new NCAA "leaping" rule.

glyphrunner · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 04:50pm

As an umpire, even at the varsity level and down, I always preface a deep snap (other than shotgun formation) with a statement to the defense:

"Gentlemen, stay off the center until he has a chance to block."

This at least gets it into the minds of the defense no to charge the snapper.

andy1033 · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 05:04pm

This applies any time a A player is 7 or more yards deep from the center and in a position to recieve the snap. Even if it is in a shotgun formation

Jim S · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 07:00pm

This may be one of the most mis-interpreted rules we have.
The rule is there to do just as it says PREVENT A DIRECT CHARGE INTO THE SNAPPER.
It does not say you can't touch the snapper, it doesn't say the snapper is inviolate for the entire down, it doesn't say that the degree of contact is what is important.
The rule is in place to protect a snapper when he has his head down, looking backwards and his neck is in a vulnerable position. The criteria should be that a defensive player will not charge into the snapper at this time to 1. Cause injury to the snapper. or 2. to knock the snapper out of the way.
Once the snapper has had a chance to recover his position. Ie: get his head back up, this provision no longer applies. However you could still have a personal foul if you thought that a defensive player was 'attacking' the snapper instead of playing to the ball.
If the snapper keeps his head down longer than what is needed to recover the rule no longer applies, and good preventive officiating says we should talk to the snapper. He is leaving himself vulnerable.
If the contact is off to the side by a player attempting to shoot the gap, the rule does not apply. If the contact is because the defender is knocked sideways by the guard (or other), the rule does not apply.
This rule is for a momentary occurance. It's almot like the free blocking zone on this kind of snap, it disappears quickly.
And never tell the defense that they "can't touch the snapper" this isn't true and helps to perpetuate the problem with the understanding of the rule. Tell them not to rough the snappper, or to not run directly into the snapper.

Texoma_LJ · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 08:33pm

JimS.. I tend to disagree with your point that the rule is there to protect the snapper with his head down and once he lifts his head back up the protection is over. I tend to believe that the rule protects the snapper becuase of the unnatural position he is in having to deep snap and that he has no way to protect himself. He should be given protection until he can physically protect himself again. This requires not only lifting the head but also attaining an "athletic" stance over his feet. It is the responsibility of the defense not to charge into the snapper until this time, this is no different than the defense knowing that the ball is dead and to cease play. The nature of the rule implies there is a player that is in an unsafe situation. It is our responsibility to protect him, until he can protect himself.
I do agree that a once a "reasonable" amount of time has passed that he should have returned to an "athletic" position and protection is then discontinued.

glyphrunner · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 27, 2004, 11:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by Texoma_LJ
JimS.. I tend to disagree with your point that the rule is there to protect the snapper with his head down and once he lifts his head back up the protection is over. I tend to believe that the rule protects the snapper becuase of the unnatural position he is in having to deep snap and that he has no way to protect himself.

I agree with this especially as I was a deep snapper before this rule came into play. I can attest to you right now that the ruling isn't there only to protect the snapper's neck, instead it also is there to help protect that unnatural and defenseless position particularly for the back.

It was common practice for the linebacker to make his first shot with a club to my lower back, and we had our LB's do the same to our opponents. The idea is that if you can hit him in the kidneys enough the snapper's going to stop concentrating on getting that ball back there clean and fast, and be more concerned about avoiding pissing blood for two weeks after the game.

If you tell the kids to lay off the center "until he has a chance to block" gives the center time and reinforces the fact that we're watching for roughing. They normally won't rough if they know you're watching closely.