1) Our state Mandates that our Beanbags be white
I feel Blue is easier to see Do any states allow Blue bags and how do you feel about them (I use them in youth games as we have no rules about those and I like them)

2) It is suggested by some "commissioners" that the ball of our flags be covered in white tape if we choose to tuck them in waist so that you cannot see the flag.... after 3 time s of the flag hitting the mud this looks like crap... what do you think

My crew in Iowa we have blue bean bags and tape our flags. Both for the above mentioned reasons and no one has said anything to us as of yet.

Flags that get muddy can be retaped between games or if need be at halftime.

White bean bags only (we've always been told).

Who cares if anybody sees the top of the flag?

White bean bags.

What's the purpose of taping the flag? The argument seems to be that no one can see it if you tape it white but like ABoselli said, who cares if people see it? They know we have them so what are we trying to hide?

White bean bags in Michigan.

I personally don't see the sense of taping the top of the flag. That isn't mandated at any league or level that I work. But if it is "suggested" where you work, then I guess "When in Rome".

We are supposed to carry flags, so what does it matter if someone sees it as part of our uniform. In my association, most people carry their flags in their side pocket, a few in the back pocket, and i think me and someone else carry it in the waistband with the ball sticking out. No one does anything to hide the flag. Plus they're bright orange so I think they stick out a bit more than the yellow flags :cool:

As for bean bags, no one uses them up here (Canada) so if someone were to use them, it's personal preference. (I use blue)

Yup, it would be a real shame if someone knew a football official carried a flag.

1. Here in PA we use white, but I do not have any problem with blue. My only opinion on this is that everyone in the crew should have the same color bag.

2. I know of many people who tape the ends of their flag; I do not. The argument for it (as I've been told) is that it looks bad to have some yellow showing and the white tape will "hide" the yellow. The white tape might cover the yellow, but the white "shows up" over the black of the belt, so I do not really think the tape adds anything.

I was watching the Green Bay game on ABC, and the referee seemed to have the ball of his flag taped with black tape, it looked really sharp, I wouldn't have noticed it except for the fact that I didn't see him with a flag and after taking a closer look I noticed that it blended right in with his belt. In my opinion it looked much better than the officials I see on TV with white tape over their flags.

Why should we hide a tool of the trade. Taping the flags white comes from coaches saying "see he has his flags out waiting to throw it". What needs to happen is the coaches, kids, and fans need to stop seeing us as the enemy and what we are there for, to ensure a fair game and that no one gains an advantage by an infraction of the rules.

[Edited by Jersey Ref on Sep 13th, 2004 at 10:49 PM]

White is only implied.
 

Of course you mostly see white as the color of most flags used in my area. There was a State Final game last year, where it snowed the entire game. The officials had a hard time (especially the BJ) finding their flags. I work with the crew that worked the game every week (I fill in on Saturdays for one of the members). Well as kind of a gag gift, the crew chief purchased everyone on the crew a blue bean bag. Now he made a case for the flag as well and has a sign which states, “In case of snow break glass." The case looks like the kind you see a fire extinguisher is incased in. He even put a chain and a hammer on the side of this case. The blue bean bag is hanging on a hook. This took him some time to make and we all got a big laugh out of it. If you live in the Midwest around playoff time, you might have to deal with some snow. So I used to say that you should not ever have blue bean bags, but not sure that rings so true anymore.

Peace

White beanbags in southern NJ.

I was taught to only let a small portion of the penalty flag to show. The reason was they didn't want the officials to look like they were anixious to throw their flags. I see nothing wrong with a small portion of the flag being in sight so you can get a hand on it. Also, if 15 inches of flag is showing it looks bad to me because I rarely see it, only when rookies show up at a game.

I agree w u SJOLDGUY
I did see a Vet NFL official have 15 inches of flag hanging out Bernie Kukar.... a normally great crew but he just didnt look sharp

psu where you from in PA thats where i am from

http://www.blackknights.nu/Domare/Bilder/bkukar.jpg

One helluva rookie right there . . . :p

Taping the flag 'cause you don't want 'yellow' to show, eh???

And here I thought the veterans were taping the weighted end 'cause it was torn or something and they were too cheap to spend the six bucks to buy another one...

Well, there you have it - proof positive that Tony Banks actually was in the NFL at some point. Who knew?

I don't mind the ball of the flag to show if tucked into the front of the pants. However, I never allow any portion of the flag to show if tucked into a pocket (side/back). I tell my guys that it looks too much like a snot rag when an official lets it hang out such as the photo above.

While it doesn't matter on the flags being taped, after the issue with the NFL and the flag a couple of years ago hitting the player from Cleveland, your seeing more guys not taping. The issues is your altering the way the manufactur made it.
Lawyers will look for anything.

As for Bean Bags, NCAA the color is optional as long as everyone on the crew is the same. We use blue in our conference in OH. Other Div. III conference in OH is using white.

In HS, it's white ONLY>

Can I get the bean bag rights and we'll change colors every other year?????

I'm sorry but there's no way that a blue beanbag is easier to see than a white one.

it is also easier to see on a poorly lined feild (or one lined with gypsum where the powder xfers to alot of places)

I am from Erie. You?

pittsburgh

Ahem...

:)

Almost no-one uses them, except for the pros and a few people who were smart enough to find the value of the bean bag ;)

Not sure about the taped flags, but as for bean bags, they should be white, unless your association says otherwise. In the 04-05 Officials Manual on page 10, in the paragraph after item #9 and above Pregame Responsibilities.

"All officials must have the proper equipment; essentials are a whistle, penalty marker, WHITE bean bag to mark nonpenalty spots, ..." (I added the emphasis to WHITE)

Paul

How many people actually follow the entire mechanics manual to the letter?

I see some crews using blue to mark PSK these days. I have a hard enough time finding a white bag on green grass, especially if it hasn't been cut in a while.

I think many crews (probably mine included) have far worse problems than the color of their beanbags.

I would certainly agree that most crews, including mine, have far worse things to worry about and I'm also sure most crews, including mine, don't follow the mechanics manual to the letter. But some states, when deciding playoffs are definitely looking at mechanics and proper equipment could be one of those criteria. Although I would suspect that matching equipment is probably more important.

Personally I have a harder time seeing the Blue bags on the field. I imagine that if you are color blind, seeing the blue and green next to each other is pretty tough too (not sure if this is true or not).

I was simply trying to answer the question of which color should be used, and at this point there isn't any choice, there is a predefined answer in the manual. I will also admit, that certain situations, snow, may dictate that a different color, blue, works better at times, but there is no support for using blue in the manual, which unless your state says to do something different, should be how we do things.

Paul

The taped flag has been an issue of mine for quite some time. I just can't see any reason why we have to hide the fact that we have a flag. Also, if the reason is so that people can't see you start to pull it and then put it back, they will see the yellow as soon as you start pulling it out because only the top is white and the yellow part will get pulled out and show.

As FBullock said, lawyers will look for anything and if you happen to cause injury, the fact that you altered the flag from original specifications can hurt you. I'd rather use what I get from the manufacturer.

Finally, I have only seen 1-2 NCAA officials and only 1 NFL official without a yellow topped flag. The NCAA guys had white and the NFL official was Walt Coleman this last MNF with a black topped flag. If its good enough for the upper guys, its good enough for me. I like the yellow.

Never heard of taping the flag, but I think a flag sticking out of the pocket looks sloppy. We keep em tucked deep and most of our crews look good doing that. Also, when a coach complains about a flag, I tell 'em we have to really mean to throw the flag, they don't just fall out! :)

I think that anything like the picture posted earlier is downright careless. To a much lesser degree, I think that a yellow ball sticking out the top of the pants is somewhat sloppy. Under "Use of the Penalty Marker" on page 18 of NFHS mechanics, it should be "tucked out of sight." Look at youself in the mirror if you tuck yours in your pants. The yellow detracts from your appearance, IMHO. I prefer white tape (never heard of the black); if the flag's tucked in all the way to the ball, the ball blends with your shirt, not your belt.
That's my .02 with change leftover ;)
Jonathan

3 pages
 

I can't believe that the color of flag ends and bean bags can generate 3 pages of discussion. I also can't believe that someone would not get a playoff assignment because of the same. But evidently some believe that it is important for all to have bean bags of the same color. If you have flags and bean bags and you know when and how to use them, you can work on my crew anytime regardless of color within limits. If you have hot pink then we might have to have a litlle talk about our next assignment.

There should be ONE uniform for a crew and the crew should have a uniform look to it. Any yellow showing looks sloppy! Neatness sells your crew and your calls, etc. That is MHO. Have a great day!

I agree that we need to look neat, but if you have a little yellow ball that doesn't mean you don't look neat. I do agree that we should all have the same bean bag. But if your flag is in your back pocket tucked deeply or the little ball is sticking out then I have no problem wtih that, looks neat to me.

Bernie Kukar is from the iron range in northern MN...so we have to cut him some slack. I think he's done alright for himself so far

Maybe we should worry more about our keys, mechanics/signals, and deadball officiating than on the color of our beanbags. Let's not lose focus of the important things

Going along with the if bean bags quantify three pages of discussion, I have a question... Do boxers or briefs make any difference to some of you on your crews?

And let's not get into the 'Going Commando' pros and cons either please... :D

I hope you are not trying to spark a serious conversation on undergarments.

It's exactly as useful as the conversation on "taping the flag," IMHO.

--Rich

I prefer commando - the chicks dig it! :D

Black or sometimes Pink thong

I used to always want to visit Alaska... maybe I'll try Hawaii instead. :D

I prefer commando - the chicks dig it

All I know is that if the boys need adjusting, its awful hard to be sly about it standing by yourself at the 50 yardline and 1000 people there looking at the field. It's not like you can yell, "Hey look- there's Elvis!".

Briefs and compression shorts keep everything tidy.

this is where we have stooped to

as starter of the thread I did want to point out that we have seen our evaluations "dinged" because we did not have our flags taped and i just wanted to see what every one felt
however that was recently change by the powers that be we do not have to tape now (still we cannot have alot of yellow showing which is fine by me i tuck deep!!!)

as far as the new topic about briefs. an older white hat told me about a story where his umpire on his old crew used to go commando until he split his pants spotting the ball and then every one spotted his.........

i laughed for 15 min

I get it - bulger.

Seriously, though folks -

Getting 'dinged' on an eval because flags aren't taped is picayune, small time crap.

SEC Officials
 

SEC Officials wear their flags hanging out of their pockets so the coaches can see them. It is supposed to send a message?

aboselli,
I agree--- BUT the guys doing the evaluation control all the best games and wether you get into the chapter that assigns the local college games

so that leads me to the question do i follow them or do i just keep bieng the best rules/mechanics/game guy i can be

(PS last year a guy on my crew got dinged for not throwing his flag High Enough on a foul where he needed a spot)

Well, when in Rome....

The Romans in your parts seem to have a sphincter factor of about 10. Go along to get along and all that, I guess.

I agree, do what you gotta do to move up. It sucks but when you become the head honcho you can fix it. :p

lol, well I think you're going to have to get acouple years under your belt before you go for that. It especially helps to get to know most of the guys and the system.

carpe diem. but find you a good right hand man. be leary of those that want to run things behind the scenes.