Dead ball?

[ref59405]

We have been discussing this at our study club for 2 weeks now, and we are getting nowhere, so I thought I would ask for help. Quarterback is scrambling behind the line of scrimmage when he gets hit on his left side. He leans over, and with the ball in his right hand, he touches the ground with the ball. We blow it dead. The coach goes crazy, telling me that it is not a dead ball. He said, "It is not any different than if a ball is loose on the ground and someone picks it up. Touching the ball while it is on the ground is not a dead ball."
I know the rule book says a runner is down if any part of his body, other than his hand or foot comes in contact with the ground. But what about the ball?
Thank you very much for your help.
Alan

[Edited by ref59405 on Sep 13th, 2004 at 01:08 PM]

[Hand Signals]

Not a dead ball. The play goes on.

[jrfath]

ball touches ground in possession of runner...ball is still live.

[Axe Man]

In this case, the ball is defined as part of the hand.

[Snake~eyes]

Like everyone said, ball is still live.

[ref59405]

Thank you for your advice. After the umpire blew it dead, the head coach called time out and told me that it was not a dead ball. I agreed with him and called an inadvertent whistle, and I did not charge him for a timout. The umpire was a little upset that I overruled him, but I thought it was a live ball. When I asked the pool members at our next meeting, almost every one of them said I was wrong and it was a dead ball.
Thanks again,
Alan

[Edited by ref59405 on Sep 13th, 2004 at 02:47 PM]

[mcrowder]

No - the ball is not defined as part of the hands. And the hands are not part of the bat. () This sort of invention of definitions is just the kind of thing that will make a young official misrule on something.

The ball is the BALL. Period. The rules do not say that the ball-carrier is down when the ball hits the ground in his possession... therefore, he is not down. The ballcarrier is down when any part of his BODY other than hands or feet, touch the ground. Did any part of his body touch the ground? No. Play on.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by mcrowder
No - the ball is not defined as part of the hands. And the hands are not part of the bat. () This sort of invention of definitions is just the kind of thing that will make a young official misrule on something.

The ball is the BALL. Period. The rules do not say that the ball-carrier is down when the ball hits the ground in his possession... therefore, he is not down. The ballcarrier is down when any part of his BODY other than hands or feet, touch the ground. Did any part of his body touch the ground? No. Play on.

Right, that is correct, the ball is the ball, not the hand.

Hey ref59405, why don't you ask some of those members to show you what rule says the ball becomes dead in your scenario? I think they'll have a hard time showing you the proof.

[ref59405]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Right, that is correct, the ball is the ball, not the hand.

Hey ref59405, why don't you ask some of those members to show you what rule says the ball becomes dead in your scenario? I think they'll have a hard time showing you the proof.

I did. All they could come up with was "the ball is dead if anything OTHER than his hand or foot touches the ground."

[ABoselli]

"...or allows any part of his person other than a hand or foot to touch the ground"

The football is not part of his person.