Starting the clock after a penalty Federation

[johnvjr]

With a clock running team A1 has a false start with 1 second on the 25 second clock. The clock starts on the ready to play. Can a team do this repeatedly to run the game clock down? The 2003 case book 3.4.2 states the clock will start on the ready to play if A1 wanted to stop the clock. In this case A1 wants to run the clock out. Does Federation rule 3.6.3 "When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped" cover multiple false starts? Is multiple false starts illegal? How many is too many?

[JRutledge]

The Referee has discretion when to stop and start the clock as well. So in this case the Referee can decide to not start the clock (on the Ready) if they feel a team benefited from the clock status after a penalty.

Peace

[Bob M.]

REPLY: One of the important points in Rut's reply is that the referee only has that discretion if a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally. That implies that they have fouled. If a team attempts to conserve time in a legal manner (e.g. by throwing a backward pass out of bounds -- Federation only) the referee has no such discretion and must start the clock on the snap.

[Forksref]

Last year we had a team have two false starts in the last minute of the first half. The opposing coaches thought they were trying to run out the clock. It is not easy trying to determine "intent" of a team. We decided that next time we'd talk to the A QB about it and try to prevent any more. And, we'd decide to start the clock on the snap.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Forksref
Last year we had a team have two false starts in the last minute of the first half. The opposing coaches thought they were trying to run out the clock. It is not easy trying to determine "intent" of a team. We decided that next time we'd talk to the A QB about it and try to prevent any more. And, we'd decide to start the clock on the snap.

I would not even do that. You called two fouls which helped the team with the clock. They will take more time off the clock whether they did it on purpose or not. Just do not start the clock on the ready. You do not need to get into a conversation to do it.

Peace

[Forksref]

"They will take more time off the clock whether they did it on purpose or not."

As I said, it's not easy to judge intent and even harder to predict the future. Maybe a call to Dionne Warwick would help me with what the team will do.

My conversation with the QB would something like, "We will start the clock on the snap from now until the end of the half." The choice is theirs.

[JRutledge]

Forksref,

You do not have to ask or know. The clock was stopped for an illegal act. A team ahead would benefit if you start the clock again, after they have committed an illegal act. You have the right to decide to not start that clock. That is why I am saying you do not need to ask. I would treat this differently if there is 1:00 on the clock as compared to 10:00 on the clock. Asking is not going to help you. They would not admit to doing it on purpose anyway. So why ask? All that I can see coming out of that is the wrong message being sent. You know the kid might accuse you of saying something to him you did not. I just would not go there. But that is my opinion.

Peace

[Snake~eyes]

I'm with Rut on this one. You cannot give team A an advantage by starting the clock when they false started. Clock starts on the snap.

[Jim S]

Originally posted by Forksref
"
My conversation with the QB would something like, "We will start the clock on the snap from now until the end of the half." The choice is theirs.

You might start the clock on the snap for the next play, but unless they again try to do something the uses time illegally, you would have to start or stop the clock by rule for any subsequent plays.
The discretion rule does not allow you to change the timing rules per se. Just for the next play.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by Forksref
My conversation with the QB would something like, "We will start the clock on the snap from now until the end of the half." The choice is theirs.

You should not say this. They could take it that no matter what they do you will not start the clock until the snap.

If this is happening in the first half I would not have worried to much about it unless they got a 3rd in a row. If it is the end of the game of close game, and they are ahead, I would inform the coach that the clock will not start until the snap.

If they persist in doing things along this line, I would then preceed to warn the coach that I am to the point to awarding the opposing team a score. If they are to the point where they are backed up so far to the goal line, I would probably tell him I would award the opposing team a safety, thus forcing him to have to kick the ball to them.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Forksref
Last year we had a team have two false starts in the last minute of the first half. The opposing coaches thought they were trying to run out the clock. It is not easy trying to determine "intent" of a team. We decided that next time we'd talk to the A QB about it and try to prevent any more. And, we'd decide to start the clock on the snap.

REPLY: I'm with Rut and the rest here. You don't really need to judge intent. As Forksref said, it's difficult...in fact too difficult for us to worry about. In a case such as this, give the benefit of the doubt to the offended team and keep the clock stopped. And don't say anything to anyone unless they ask. Note that if the offending team does ask, that's a pretty good sign that their actions were intentional!

[SJoldguy]

I think the game situation also effects your response. If the ball is 1st and 10 on B30 near the end of the first half and B is out of timeouts, I'd go on the ready for sure on the first time and probably the 2nd false start also. If it is 3rd and 20 from the A5, the first false start would be enough to wait until the snap.

[rdfox]

Let me add this to the discussion.

I had a quarterback stop the clock in a JV game Monday by throwing the ball down at his feet directly after a snap, except he was in a shotgun position. So we had flags for an illegal pass.

The incomplete pass was what stopped the clock, and yet it was an illegal manner for stopping the clock. I don't feel I should override the specific clock rule and use my discretion to start the clock on the ready-for-play whistle.

We administered a five-yard, loss-of-down penalty from the spot of the pass. Clock started on the snap, which is what they wanted, but they gave up a play and about ten total yards to get it because of their QB's not going under the center.

I suppose you could rule the action as an illegal delay of game (5 yards from the LOS) and then start the clock on the ready. That seems a stretch, though.

[SJoldguy]

RDFX. You should have invoked rule 3-6-3 but the options given to B captain are complex. decline : spot ball at end of run, clocks starts on ready, if time expires end of half. Accept: 5 yds from spot of foul, loss of down, clocks starts on ready, if time expires then you need untimed down. Very tricky situation!!