I was white hatting a JV game yesterday. We had what I judged to be a backward pass that was batted by DE then picked up by the offense and run to the 8 yrd line. It was close but I think this call should not be exclusively the referee's call. The line officials have a much better angle. What do you guys think?

Who has the better angle?

Communication within the crew is a must

In the mechanics manual that I have it states that the backward pass is the wingmen's call.

Now, I don't have a lot of experience, but I have worked WH (in JV) and recently LJ (which I will be working this season) - however, we had a backwards pass in a scrimmage to my side and I really wasn't able to tell if it was backwards or not. The play was more of a broken play and the running back released late out of the backfield, so I was maybe 5-10 yards downfield behind the receiver on my side, so from my perspective, I really couldn't tell.

It seems to me - and I know I still need to train my eyes for the wings - that the referee has a better shot at seeing if the pass is backwards or not since he is standing closest to the quarterback.

REPLY: I think it depends on the circumstances. If the QB immediately stands up from the snapper and throws out to the wing, it needs to be the wing's call whether it was backward or forward because the referee is back too far to see properly. If the QB drops back, and then throws, it needs to be the R's call since the drop back is probably also accompanied by some receivers heading downfield and taking the wings' attentions with them. Now for the $64K question...in the former case, which wing should have primary responsibility for the call? Comments??

The way we're trained if it's a quick hit where the QB stands up and IMMEDIATELY throws across, it will be the wing's call. If he takes two or three steps, the Ref will make the call.

We have the wing that whose side the pass is toward give help with that call because even though his angle may not be the best, he is closer to the play. The opposite wing has different places to look during that play away from him, not to mention that there may be players that would be obstructing his view. If in doubt; it's incomplete. We tell our guys that they have to be 110% sure that the thing was backward in order to punch it back.

I will agree with PA. On our crew, we have the wing that the pass is going toward rule on forward or backwards in the snap-pass situation. As stated before, he may not have the best angle but we feel he can sell the call better than the wing across the field.

Goldcoastump,

Both the 5 man and 6 man manuals producted by Dr. Swearingen and Payne state that the wingmen should watch for "immediate" throws by the quarterback down the line of scrimmage to determine if the pass is forward or backward. It also says that the referee watches for backward passes. So it really comes down to the best angle. In my crew, the wingmen have the pop passes and I have most everything that involves the QB dropping back.

For those of you not from GA, our state association produces a mechanics manual that take precident over the NF officials manual.

With NFHS rules and mechanics the R should have the best view since his position is on the throwing arm side of the QB. And, an NFHS backward pass is determined by the initial direction of the pass.

NCAA requires knowing where the pass originated and is caught or strikes the ground. That requires the wings.

How can he see that?
 

Ed,

That only works if the QB scrabbles around, then throws a pass. The Referee might be 10-15 yards away on a quick pass. There is no way he is going to tell on a quick to the sideline.

Peace

The $64K question...
 

The NF mechanics manual appears to be silent as to which wing. My opinion is that the offside official (from whom the pass is moving away) has the best look at the forward/backward call, for two reasons: (1) If the receiver is close to the sideline, the near official will have a hard time getting a good angle. He may also be screened by the receiver or a defender. (2) It's just plain more difficult to judge something coming straight at you than moving away.

I totally agree with you Roamin" Umpire. The opposite wing has the best view of the direction of the pass. The simple reason our crew has gone to having the wing the pass is coming to make the call is that (1) it is very ackward to have the opposite wing make the call, (2) I feel we can do a better job of "selling" the call to the coaches with the close wing making the call.

This is one of those calls in NF that is difficult with the way the rule is written and the number of officials.

Until someone can give me a better option, that is the way we will call it.

Re: How can he see that?
 

Rut,

One thing I don't look for is controversy, so if the QB's throw even resembles a forward pass, it is forward. To call it backwards I have to see the frame of the upper body clearly turned backwards.

My personal observation is the quick pass is easier to see because the QB will turn his entire body and you have the benefit of having the offense set before the throw such that you might know the QB's intention.

It's According to . . . . .
 

I wouldn't say that the Linesman are totally responsible. To me it's according how quick the quarteback releases the ball and how quick the Linesman start up field with his responsibilities. I try my best to see how the quarterback set up before I cover my receiver. Let's say about 2 seconds. In most cases on the backwards passes I witness, I was able to call them even though the Referee saw it the same way and agreed. I felt I was responsible within that time frame and from where I was positioned. Once I'm 5 to 10 yards upfield . . . . then it's on the Referee.

$64K Question...
 

REPLY: I agree with AxeMan and Roamin' Umpire. The <u>opposite</u> wing definitely has the better angle to make the call, but it's a much harder call to sell. We also have the ball-side wing make that call.

Read the manual.

The Officials Manual states the referee rules on a pass forward or backward and the wings have to be ready to rule on the direction fo a quick QB pass.

communication is needed on the short drop back and quick pass. I am a LJ and have been working with the same R for a least 15 years. On that quick pass to my side , I look at the ref and see one of 3 things. 1) he is blowing his whistle and giving incompete signal. 2) he is persuing the play looking at the ball as it rolls. 3) he is looking at me with the biggest eyes that you've ever seen. in 1 the play is over. IN 2 he has made his judgement that it is a backwards pass. In 3 he needs help so I make the call immediately and firmly whether or not I have a clue as to the situation. In that time we have managed to "sell the call" with very little complaint from coaches. Once I thought it was forward, deflected by a DE but my Ref was calling backward( by persuing the ball). I let it go because I wasn't sure of the initial direction of the pass. At halftime , i found out that he hadn't seen the deflection and we concluded that we had blown it. In retrospect, I should have gone to him after the play or given a tipped signal during the play. ( or both) At any rate we should have straightened it out

In my experiences, no official should make a call on a play exclusively because of their position. In general, the official closest to the play are in better position to make the call but this isn't always true because the angle of the play could provide a much better view to an official further away from the play. What has worked well for me is to check with the official closest to the play first. Then ask the other officials if they saw something different. Working together to make the right call is most important and no one has an exclusive area that restricts other officials from making a call from anywhere on the field. I'm not sure how this relates to the rules of mechanics but this is what works best for me and my crew.

DeRock,

You are telling me that you are going to let someone else call intentional grounding and roughing the kicker and roughing the passer?

Oh boy.

Here we go again!

No, I am saying the official "closest" to the play (R) will be in the best position to make the call but that doesn't mean the R is the only one who can make that call. I could be standing right there in the best position to make the call but I will still have blind spots or angles that I won't be able to see. A good example would be a fumble that goes unnoticed to an official standing right there by the play but easily spotted by another official further away with a clear view angle. When they review plays in the NFL to make the right call, they don't only use the camera that is closest to the play but instead they search for the camera that has the best angle to clearly view the play. I follow the same concept on the field. If intentional grounding and roughing are my calls as the R, and for whatever reason I don't call it are you going to pretend you didn't see it just because by the rules of mechanics its not your area of responsibility? We are an officiating team. We all know the rules, we all can see, and we all have flags. I have been working with my crew for many years and we cover each other pretty well. I know my style of officiating may not be consistent with what many officials here would advise but I have been doing it this way for 10 years and it works great for me and my crew.