The play is this. B1 intercepts the ball at the three and his momentum carries him into his endzone. B1 then attempts to advance out of the endzone where he is hit and fumbles. The ball rolls out of the back of the endzone. The question is this, is it a safety or are we going to place the ball at the three? I know if he would have fumbled in the field of play, momentun is off and its a safety. But is momentum off after he carries it into the endzone and then fumbles. I have just argued this play at our chapter meeting for the last 90 minutes and I can't find a play in either this year, last year or 2002 casebooks that is exactly on point.

This cannot be the momentum exception.
 

The ball did not end up dead in the endzone. You cannot use the momentum exception on a play unless the ball ended up dead there as a result of the play made within the 5 yard line. You would not put the ball back on the 3 yard line if he ran to the other 3 yard line and fumbled the ball. So why in this play?

Peace

The ball will be placed on the three-yard line. The momentum exception (NF 8-5-2a Exc.) reads (with emphasis added by me):

<i>When a defensive player intercepts a forward pass, fumble, backward pass by an opponent or catches a scrimmage kick or free kick between his 5-yard line and the goal line, and his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead in his team's possession or <b>it goes out of bounds in the end zone,</b> the ball belongs to B at the spot where the pass or fumble was intercepted or the kick was caught.</i>

Also see NF casebook 8.5.2A. The NCAA ruling is the same; reference is rule 8-5-1 Exc.

REPLY: Momentum exception is in effect. Place the ball at B's 3. 1/10 for B there.

Re: This cannot be the momentum exception.
 

What are you talking about Rut? You need to read the whole rule and use an example that somewhat relates to the play in question. The momentum exception is in effect,

Re: Re: This cannot be the momentum exception.
 

Calm down James. I misread the original post, not the rule. I was under the impression that the ball was out of the endzone when the ball was fumbled. The Momentum exception would not apply in that case. I re-read the original question and that is not what he was asking.

Relax, it will be alright. ;)

Peace

Some free advice for Rut.
 

Rut, once again you have provided a completly incorrect ruling on a play.
Perhaps, in the future, before you offer advice, you may want to consider reading and understanding a rule <u>before</u> you offer <b>"The Official Rut Interpretation"</b>!
This course of action may assist you in not offering incorrect advice to younger officials who are on this site to learn.

If this post came across as being just a little too strong,
thats good, I meant it to be!

My 2 cents

You know where you can stick that advice.
 

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For the record I meant that.

I misread the freakin post. I thought the person said that that Player B now was out of the endzone and fumbled the ball. You cannot have the momentum exception if the ball did not end up dead in the endzone. <b>YOU CANNOT HAVE THE MOMENTUM EXCEPTION IF THE BALL IS NOT CONSIDERED DEAD IN THE ENDZONE.</b> So if the player ran to the two yard line and fumbled the ball back into the endzone, <b>THE MOMENTUM EXCEPTION DOES NOT APPLY!!!</b>

It is clear that is not what he asked. I made a mistake. Before you come to tell me what I should do, <b>READ MY FOLLOW UP POST FIRST.</b> Again, THE MOMEMTUM EXCEPTION ONLY APPLIES TO PLAYS THAT END UP DEAD IN THE ENDZONE, <b>NOT PLAYS THAT HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF THE ENDZONE.</b>

The very play he asked about is on Page 70 of the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook. I thought he added a twist to what was on the play. I misread and was WRONG based on what I assumed I read!!!

Before you start trying to tell me what to do or what I know, read all the posts. I admitted my mistake, will you admit yours? ;)

Peace

Re: You know where you can stick that advice.
 

It looks like you're the one who needs to calm down. And why all the explaining about when Mo doesn’t apply? I know when it doesn't and I'm sure KWH knows also. You did finally admit to a mistake but it wasn’t until this last post. And quite frankly , I'm surprised you finally did. So lets see if we can just leave it at that and continue on to something else.

Rut, Thank you for the professional response!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

...I made a mistake...and was WRONG based on what I assumed...

See what happens when you <b>ASSUME</b>!!!
You make an <b>A*S,</b> out of <b>U,</b> and <b>ME</b>
In football there is no room for those who assume!!! [QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Before you start trying to tell me what to do or what I know, read all the posts. I admitted my mistake, will you admit yours? ;)

1) For the record, when I began my post, your lame excuse of a post was not up yet!
2) When I make a mistakes I always own up to them.
3) <b>Upon further review</b>, I don't feel I made any mistakes anywhere in this entire thread. :)


[Edited by KWH on Aug 26th, 2004 at 08:42 PM]

Re: Re: You know where you can stick that advice.
 

I am just going to say, that you are a dumba$$. This is my exact words in response to your post.

I specifically said I <b>"re-read the post"</b> to suggest I misunderstood what he said.


Because I thought he said the ball exited the end zone. Ya think? :rolleyes:


I was not talking to you. You did not create this post. Your knowledge of the rule is not my concern.


Are you here to help people and have a discussion or are you here to nit pick posts of individuals. All that I can remember about both of you is that you guys took party in a conversation we had about a year ago as it relates to PSK. You claimed in a situation you would have a double foul and to your credit you had the NF and your state interpreters telling you that is how you apply the rule. Well in my state we had not only a PowerPoint presentation, I had a different interpretation from your state and the NF ended up correcting themselves and basically took on my interpretation. I cannot not remember one post you have made since that discussion we had a year ago. Not one. I do not have that kind of energy to worry about personalities of officials that I will never work with or never want to work with. So I really do not understand what you concern is if I am right or wrong about anything. I guess you have nothing in your life that is meaningful?

I misread a damn post. It was not the first time, I am sure it will not be the last. I was doing something when I was reading this post. I was on the way out of the door when I made this post last night. I had to pick someone up from somewhere and had my eye on the clock and the screen. It happens. It is not a tragedy. It is not a big deal.

I just think some of you really need to get a grip on reality and why we are here.

Peace

Re: Re: Some free advice for Rut.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BushRef

Quote:

KWH-- You mean to tell us it took ya 12 minutes to peck out that mess? Where'd you learn to type?

No it only took about 45 seconds to type the message.
The business phone call in the middle of typing the message took up the other eleven minutes...

Re: Rut, Thank you for the professional response!
 

There isn't? Wow, thank you for your stupidity.


It was lame to explain that I misread a post?

You do? And who can verify that comment? Can your wife say that? Can your children say that? Will the people you officiate say that? Make sure you give their names and numbers so we can all confirm that claim.


I see one. You and your friend tried to ASSUME what I meant and why I posted my answer. Any Middle schooler could easily see that I did not answer the question based on the play in the original thread.

Peace

Enough Already
 

We shouldn't have to hear from Rut much longer because
they turn all the computers off in the library at 10pm. ;)

What am I going to do with this company computer?
 

You post at a computer at the library? Sorry to hear that.

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Peace

Messgae to James Neill
 

Everything you ever said about Rut is true!
You hit the nail on the head!

Re: Messgae to James Neill
 

It is? I will remember to tell all the people I work for all the bad things you guys say about me, so they can take away all my games. Considering that everything he said about me is true, how do I even work a game? I guess they listen to you like the guy we just got rid of on our football crew about two years ago? There is a reason some people just have only two games during the football season and others are only off two Saturdays off the entire football season.

Oh well, I guess there is a reason I do not listen to internet officials. ;)

Peace

This page intentionally left blank
 

.

Did Jeff sleep with you?
 

You sound really bitter.

For Jeff
 

There will always be people on this earth that do not like someone. Some of them are so obsessed over their hatred for others they miss the entire point of what has really meaning. Do not let these guys get you down. It is clear they have nothing better to do than rip you. They contributed nothing to this post and could have just done what others did and answer the damn question.

It is just sad some people worry so much about what others here do.

Thanks PS2Man.

I appreciate the kind words.

Peace

Re: This page intentionally left blank (I could not resist)
 

Like your brain.

Peace

For PS2Man
 

I guess I missed <b>your</b> contribution!

Good point, a suggestion may be for you to lead by example.

PS2Man-
Rut has a history of being a jerk-off on this and other boards. Being a relative newcommer you may not know this.
Rut is the type of person who never admits to making errors! I'll give you an example.
Per Rut,<i> "The only way a safety can be scored on a try (NFHS) would be in A's endzone 97 yards away." </i> When these and other type's of blantant errors are pointed out to Rut you either get a) No response at all, or, b) The story gets twisted around so that the person correcting him gets berated (see ruts post to James Neill in this thread for an example).
Anyway just a little history on rut. There is a lot more.

By the way I like your signature. Have you read it?

Time for you to Cowboy up.
 

My first question is why do you care? I do not care about personalities and issues related to people that I do not know. I saw that you live in Oregon and he lives in Illinois. You too will likely never meet. Why does it matter to you if he says things that do not wash?

He just admitted to a mistake in this post. You came here and flamed him. He was not talking to you. He did not refer to you in any way. You came to this post and flamed him. I have been around here a lot longer than you realize. I have been on the internet a lot longer than you realize. You flamed him. I do not know what the past has to do with this conversation. He might be wrong at times but you were wrong here.

You sound like a jilted girl that he dumped years ago. What does any of that have to do with this conversation? I for one do not know what you are talking about and really do not care. Grow up and act like a man. You are acting like a little girl. I am just calling it as I see it. I do not know all the history between you and others here. That has nothing to do with this thread.

I am not treating you any different than I would expect in return. I am old school. I was taught to tell it like it is and step to people as a man. I think both all of you are acting like children and need to learn to grow up. We are supposed to be professionals and brothers in arms if you will. You might get upset with what I have to say but I feel it had to be said. I have seen these little pissy fits between other officials and I will never understand it. You are not the only person I have said this. I am sure you will not be the last. It is time to act like an adult. You are bring up stuff not only do I not know about but would not understand the origin of the comments. That is acting like an adult to you?

Now I am going to have to go to bed. I have too much stuff to do tommorrow. You have a good night.

Yes you could.
 

Jeff,

That was not called for either.

Guys grow up!

Re: For PS2Man
 

I post a very small portion of the year on any football board. In less than two months my season will be over. I am not sure how much I have posted on this or any football board during the year. I mostly read and check in every once in a while. I know most of the year I do not even post here.

I mostly remember the PSK conversation we had around the beginning of the 2003 Football Season which you were totally wrong on btw. I did not care whether you admitted your mistake or my references. I do remember that I referenced the NF website and clinicians from my state. I did not look for an apology or care if you fell off the face of the earth after the conversation. I do not worry about what the crew that works the week before I see a school, I will not worry about a poster that lives in another state. If you think I am a jerk, so what. I do not think of you. If you did not respond to my post, I would have never mentioned you at all. I guess I just have better things to do and bigger and better things to worry about. I say all this to you because I can. I say all of this to you because you are not going to do anything but call me more names and make me laugh. So if I am not your kind of person, I guess you have thought about me much more than I will ever think of you. I am sure after this post we will continue to not talk or respond to each other and that is fine by me. Guys like you in my opinion need to get a life and worry about your own area and the people around it. I know I have never had one conversation about you to anyone outside of this board and I will not start now. Not even to D2 who shows up at McGriffs all the time. D2 and I talk all the time. We laugh at guys like you all the time.

Peace

Gawd... another thread shot to hell by an off-topic pissing contest.

Re: Messgae to James Neill
 

:D I sure did didn't I , you can apply that to his new found friend too :D

Re: Re: Re: You know where you can stick that advice.
 

I am just going to say, that you are a dumba$$. This is my exact words in response to your post.


Again you retort to name calling. This is the tactic taken when one is lacking in intelligence and can’t back up their argument with legitimate reasoning. I really don’t expect anything different from the likes of you.

Re: Re: Re: Re: You know where you can stick that advice.
 

I have not resorted to anything. I said explain myself and you cannot just let it go. James, I have a game to do. I have bigger fish to fry.

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You have a good day.

Peace

I'd like to hear this response from Rut!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

We laugh at guys like you all the time.

Whos laughing now?

[Edited by KWH on Aug 28th, 2004 at 06:26 AM]

You asked for it.......You got it........Toooyotaaa!!!
 

I am. Mainly because you live in Oregon and you are worried about what I say. Did I mention that you live in Oregon, which is over more than likely 2000 miles away from me depending on which part of the state you live, but you are here trying to worry about what I say or do not say in a discussion board. You tried to have a debate with my about PSK last year and tried to tell me what the NF should or should not allow and my state did exactly what the NF ended up doing.

I had my first game of the season last night. I did not see you on the field. I did not see you on the sidelines. I did not see you in the locker room and I did not see in the press box. So I have to laugh at basically a person that is a clown that is concerned with my activities and you live in another state that I will probably never go visit in my lifetime.

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Peace

Concern About Others
 

Jeff,

If it were not for the internet, no one outside of your association would care what you did or what you said. The reason you are taken to task when you display your "talents" is because of the wide audience your misinformation can influence.

If you do not want comments on your "talents", keep them out of cyberspace.

Re: Concern About Others
 

Talent is never going to be judged on a discussion board. Any person could come here and say everything perfect and go out on the field and stink up the joint.

That also goes both ways. If you do not want to say things to you that hurt your feelings, this is not the place for you. I am not going anywhere, are you?

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Aug 30th, 2004 at 06:09 PM]

At least I can do that.
 

I guess for the people in Oregon that can be a problem. ;)

I think that would be “false statement” and “accusation.” Now does that not make you less than perfect?

KWH, you link is not to the discussion I am talking about. If you do not agree, find that discussion. I do not care to because this discussion is stupid. We were talking about the momentum exception, not about some discussion that happen that only you seem to care about.


That was supposed to be a dig? I guess they do not get out of the house very often in Oregon. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

We get a pretty good chuckle our own selves over dorks that go on the internet and brag about throwing 25 penalties in a high school game. Question: Have you ever Sh*t your pants and admitted it?

That was bragging? Wow KHW, you really do not get out of the house very often. Maybe there will come a time when you will move on to another discussion. I know I do not come here for your approval, I sure how no one comes here for mine.

Now let us post something that is a benefit to the entire board next time. Now I have done that all weekend, have you done that once today?


Peace

Re: You asked for it.......You got it........Toooyotaaa!!!
 

you are not invited

Re: Re: You asked for it.......You got it........Toooyotaaa!!!
 

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Is that a threat or a promise.

Peace

Re: At least I can do that.
 

You are WRONG rut.
It is the<b> exact discussion</b> you have been dising me over.
I made one post in the entire thread and I took the same stand as you. There were many others that were in your face in that thread andyou may have mixed me up with one of them but it twer't me!
Facts are Facts!

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How 'bout this.
Perhaps, before the next time you attempt to berate someone on this board, you do your homework first.
If you would do that, you might not have to wear out your fingers so much!

Just a thought!

[Edited by KWH on Aug 30th, 2004 at 08:17 PM]

Play nice.
 

;)

Re: Re: At least I can do that.
 

It is dissing man.

Whatever. <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_120.gif' alt='' border=0></a>


How did I berate you? I did not respond to you in this post. My comments did not have you in mind. Who said the conversation was here? I do not need to do anything, because this conversation is about as stupid as I have had with most coaches. You did not come here to answer the question. You came here to nitpick at an obvious mistake. Instead of using your brain and coming to an analytical conclusion, you wanted to tell me what I know, what I think and how I should respond. Maybe you should get some ***, maybe then you would not have to worry about what I or anyone here says about a rule anyone can read in a rulebook. Now you might call that berating you, I just call it as I see it.

Peace

Re: Re: Concern About Others
 

Enough said. [/B][/QUOTE]BushRef, that may be the most IGNORANT thing ever posted on this forum by anyone.

[Edited by mick on Aug 31st, 2004 at 07:37 AM]

I started this thread and now after all this I am sorry that I did. I cannot believe how this has denigrated to the name calling situation it is in. Bushref your attempt at humor is disgusting. That reply and image is the most obnoxious statement I have ever read. I have volunteered to be a SO coach for the last 15 years and it is the most rewarding experience I have ever had. I coach track & field and long distance running and these athletes (and yes they are athletes) have more heart and demonstrate more dedication than any "normal" athlete I have ever been involved with. I have officiated 3 western finals in football and 1 state final and if I had to choose between Special Olympics and football, it would be a very easy decision. The SO experience if you would ever open your closed mind is one that you treasure for the rest of your life.

Keystone, thank you for being "you".