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Tue Aug 17, 2004, 02:23pm
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4th and 10 for K from its 40 yard line. K punts it, and after the kick has crossed the NZ, K68 and R77 engage in a chicken fight at the K45 by grasping each others face masks and not letting go. So we've got a face mask foul on K68 and R77.
K downs the punt at the R 35 and the whistle sounds. R77 then delivers a head slap to K68. The referee flags a dead ball personal foul on R77. K68 then curses R77 and an unsportsmanlike foul is called on K68. Who has the ball, what's the down and distance, what yard line, and where do you set the chains? 
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Tue Aug 17, 2004, 02:48pm
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Try this.
Live ball fouls on both K and R. R's foul could be a PSK foul. It turns out that when the down ends, it is be a PSK foul. Here's one possible outcome. I can see another, but someone else can post that. R declines K's FM foul and K accepts R's FM foul. Spot the ball at the R-20 as the end of kick was the R-35. Now, we have a pair of dead ball fouls on both R and K that looks clear that the order of occurance is known. Since the chains have not been set and the ready for play not given, we enforce them both in order. First is R's foul, take the ball to the R-10 ( half distance applies), then enforce K's foul which places the ball at the R-25. R77 is DQ'd from the game. A DQ might be considered for K68 is this were his second UC foul. I would not consider K68's actions to be fighting. So, R's ball 1/10 @R-25
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Tue Aug 17, 2004, 02:48pm
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The way I see it, R would be best served to decline K's Face mask foul... Then R keeps possession of the ball, its Face mask is enforced from the R 35-->R20... R77's head slap is enforced (R20-->R10), followed by K68's USC (R10-->R25)... 1-10@25 for R...
If R accepts K's Facemask, the fouls offset... R77's dead ball foul is enforced (K40-->R45)... This gives K a first down... K's USC is enforced (R45-->K40)... Chains are then set... 1-10@K40 for K... Either way, R77 is ejected, and K68 probably is too...
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Tue Aug 17, 2004, 04:05pm
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Quote:
As difficult as it sounds this one is easy. The chicken fight is a PSK double foul. R must decline the penalty by K removing the double foul aspect (10-2-2 Revision). Both fouls are live ball fouls. R77's head slap is a dead ball personal foul and is not coupled with the live ball foul. K68's language is unsportsmanlike conduct and is not coupled with any other foul. From the 35 -- where the kick ended -- R is penalized 15 yards to R's 20 for the live ball personal -- remember K's foul must be declined. The R77's personal is enforced from the 20, half the distance to the 10. Finally, K68's unsportsmanlike is penalized from the 10, 15 yards to R's 25. First down and 10 for R at their 25. R77 would be disqualifed for fighting. K68 would be charged with an unsportsmanlike foul but not necessarily disqualified, of course, that depends upon the discretion of the officiating crew.
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Wed Aug 18, 2004, 06:40pm
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Canadian Ruling
Quote:
R77 is penalized 15y for UR. K68 is flagged 10y for OC. I'm not sure what you mean by K downs the punt, but I think you mean K recovers the punt at the R-35. After the fouls are sorted out, it will be K 1D/10 @ R-30. Edit: after reading the other posts, it seems that R recovered the ball. R 1D/10 @ R-30. Easier penalty application up here.  [Edited by JugglingReferee on Aug 18th, 2004 at 07:42 PM]
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Thu Aug 19, 2004, 06:40am
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Quote:
However, I do not know what a PSK is, so I really can't be sure. We have 5 points of application for fouls: PLS (previous line of scrimmage), PBD (point ball dead), PBH (point ball held), PF (point of foul), and PP (point of possession). We call the "line to gain" the "front stick" or say that the player "gained yards" or that "yards were gained". Running back gets a few yards and then there is an offensive holding call. Foul is 10 yards. If yards were gained, it's 10y from PBH, first down. If yards were not gained, it's 10y from PLS, repeat the down. And remember that we have 3 downs. Nowhere is Canadian football is there a such thing as a 4th down. However, many leagues use a 4th down during the learning stages of the game. (ages 14 and below, and JV. But V, the OVFL, University, and semi-pro, pro, etc... all use 3 downs. I believe that PSK has something to do with our PP. If there's an in-flight foul, like during a kick from scrimmage, the POA is the PP, whether legal or illegal. In general, "personal foul" type penalties are applied in addition to all other fouls. They are UR, OC, RP and NM. (Unnecessary Roughness - which is unnecessary physical contact, Objectionable Conduct - which is unnecessary verbal stuff and optional ejection, Rough Play - which carries an ejection, and No Mouthguard - is largely administrative.) [Edited by JugglingReferee on Aug 19th, 2004 at 07:42 AM]
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