That clears it up Mike. One last question, what would you do as the WH if your HL reported this hold by B, but couldn't tell you if it was before or after the backward pass, or it occurred during the backward pass. I sure do appreciate the knowledge of the people on this board. Thank You!

REPLY: Sorry, I was in a meeting all afternoon. You've got to do some work between visits to the board. <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_6.gif' alt='Brows' border=0></a>

And, of course, THeisey can speak for me anytime...except to my wife! His play is the perfect example of why the spot of a backward pass beyond the NZ needs to be bagged.

Bean bag in EZ?
 

If I have a passer throwing from the EZ, and the pass seems to be intentional grounding, I drop my bean bag at the sppot of the pass. I then confer with my HL or LJ. If it is ruled IG then we have a spot to penalize from.

I instruct my crew to be aware of plays going into the EZ. If an A player loses possession before the goal line they should mark that spot in case A does not recover the ball.

They also mark the spot for the momentum rule.

These little techniques have saved me from coaches' verbal assaults.

If you take care of the little things, the big things will take care of themselves.

Re: Bean bag in EZ?
 

You should just toss the flag. Wave it off if your guys provide info to change your mind.
The penalty for IG in the EZ (NF only) is a safety, so no spot is required. Your flag is the spot if anything just to show the QB was still in the EZ.

Quote:

I instruct my crew to be aware of plays going into the EZ. If an A player loses possession before the goal line they should mark that spot in case A does not recover the ball.

Why are you doing this? Anytime a player looses possession, the spot should be marked. Don't see what you are driving at with the comment "in case A does not recover".

Quote:

They also mark the spot for the momentum rule.

and righly so, this spot is a must should momentum apply

If he tells me it occured DURING the backward pass, we now have the basic spot. It is where the runner lost possession when he threw the backwards pass.

Now, if he isn't sure, I'm going to ask him to give me his best guess, even if he needs to confer with the other officials. The calling official should know the status of the ball at the time of any foul he calls (especially if he is covering the runner). If he is covering action away from the ball, he can quickly glance to locate the ball before or while he is throwing the flag.

This is something I cover in pregame. I need to know that status of the ball at the time of the foul.

REPLY: But even if the pass occurred <u>before</u> the backward pass, the spot of the backward pass, i.e. the end of the run, becomes the basic spot and must be noted (bagged). Right??

Yep! We've come full circle. The idea is to ALWAYS bag a fumble or backward pass when it occurs from beyond the neutral zone.

Theisey has a great example for use of the beanbag. Imagine that on his play, a hold occurred in front of the runner, then you'd have the basic spot would be the end of the run and not where the hold occurred (all but one).

I'd never brag about not dropping my beanbag (Being a BJ most games, I carry two.). I'd rather drop too many than not enough. It's not like throwing your flag. 99% of the time no knows you have dropped a beanbag unless it is crucial.

Hopefully that situation would never happen, but I can't imagine bringing the ball all the way back to where the first backward pass occurred and marching it off from there.

If you asked me that question point blank, I would've said that you'd mark it off from where the foul took place. My rationing is because the offense is still in possession of the ball......not to totally go against what we know in the rule books, but would you really bring it all the way back to where the first backward pass...?

Thoughts...?

So you have to be able to see the foul AND see the status of the ball when the foul occured?

Oy, vey.

I guess it's like seeing the clock hit zeros and the shot leave the shooter's hand in basketball.

First clinic tomorrow. I hope they teach us stuff like where to stand and where to watch and stuff. Because we haven't touched on that yet.

REPLY: Absolutely...and it's not all that difficult once you get used to it. Oh...and don't forget the get the number of the player who fouled.

You know, this is a real thought provoker and I spent all my lunch time thinking it over (sad, I know.) When you stop to think about it, it makes perfect sense. I guess I was just thinking too much.

I'm glad we talked about this and thanks for all the responses. This forum really is a good source for information....

REPLY: Absolutely...and it's not all that difficult once you get used to it. Oh...and don't forget the get the number of the player who fouled. [/B][/QUOTE]

And which team he's on! ;>)