to blow pr not to blow, that is the question

[James Neil]

We had an interesting play Saturday during a semi-pro game. Team A is behind in a close game and has the ball in the center of the field at the A-35. A-2 takes a handoff and runs to the A-40. Just as he was about to be tackled, he tosses a backward pass to A-3 who’s right behind him at the A-38. A-3 runs up field to the A-42 and pitches an underhand pass to A-4 who’s about 2 yards inside the hash at the A-44. I was working Umpire and saw the second pass was clearly forward so I bagged it and tossed my flag. (I know, I should have bagged the first pass too). A4 muffs the second pass, B52 recovers and we all head the other way. B52 is downed at the A-30. A commits two dead ball fouls. I report my foul to the White Hat and he asks me why I didn’t blow it dead when the illegal pass hit the ground.
While I’m thinking about it he says it doesn’t matter, B is going to decline anyway. He then tells the B caption he has a choice of which foul to accept. I quietly interrupt and tell him both should be enforced. He consults with our Line Judge who confirms my diagnosis. While going over this play in our post-game, We had some disagreement as to wither I should have blown the play dead when the second pass hit the ground. The vote went 4-2 blow it dead. BTW ...NCAA rules

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Jim, At least your crew (4-2) was right in the composite. For both NFHS and NCAA, the ball is dead and the down ends when any forward pass (legal or illegal) is incomplete (NCAA 4-1-3i; NF 4-1-2c)

[Jim S]

And there was no reason to bag the second pass if you are flagging it for being forward.
This is probably the #1 situation where play is allowed to continue afte the play is really dead. Younger officials (yes, that still means you Jimmy) get the foul right, but forget that it is incomplete if not caught. At least for a bit.

[Uncle Ernie]

Hi Guys,

I wanna take a closer look at this. Jim, you said that B was down at the A30. I am going to assume that you gave the ball to B at the A7 1/2, 1/G.

I figured this since it appears that the crew gave the ball to B and then enforced both DBPF. One took you to the A15, the next one took you to the A7 1/2.

Okay, I am going to take a shot at this. The ball should have been blown dead when the illegal forward pass hit the ground (as Bob M. so eloquently pointed out). I figure that the DBPF's on A happened because the play was allowed to continue. No matter, lets put them in anyway.

Okay, so you blow the ball dead and then A commits two DBPF's. I believe your enforcement would have been 5 yards and Loss of Down from the A42. This would have taken us to the A37. 15 from there for the first DBPF, gets us to the A22. Half the distance for the second DBPF takes us to the A11. Now, depending on the down....ooooh boy. I think there are a couple of possible results, since you didn't specify what the down was...

A whatever down/whatever distance at the A11. Clock on Snap.
B 1/10 at the A11. Snap

You gotta love semi-pro football.....

[Bob Floyd]

Uncle Ernie, your response hits the bulls-eye.